MarimbasaurusRex Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) High school marching bands have not really taken the place of hundreds of smaller drum corps. It might make some people feel better to say that, but it's not quite true. Here's why... Only the more affluent school systems have functional music programs at all, let alone good marching bands. In an urban area like central Los Angeles, those kids have never even SEEN a good marching band or really know what one is. They don't have the choice of moving their families to a school district with better resources, instruction, etc. There is no opportunity for these hundreds of thousands of kids (millions on a nationwide scale) to learn the life lessons that drum corps or today's better HS bands provide. We're not talking BOA level here, just a decent program. It simply doesn't exist in many places. These are the areas where smaller drum corps used to thrive. Smaller, and sometimes even bigger and quite successful drum corps used to provide opportunity for kids regardless of economic background or geographic districting. If your school didn't have a good band program, you could join the local drum corps. If your most local corps wasn't so great, you could go to the one across town for the cost of a city bus ride. This, very unfortunately, is a thing of the past. How many great corps came out of urban areas? I'll let others list them if they choose, but consider Bayonne Bridgemen, Boston Crusaders, etc. Here's one example of a student caught in the trap. He's a GREAT quad player and one of the most genuine and hardest working people you will ever meet. Given the opportunity, he could make BD's line, but he will never have that chance. His family lives in south central LA and he went to a high school that has one of the worst music programs in the state. The area is plagued with gang violence, poverty and general misery. Even if his family moved within the district (which is huge) better programs simply don't exist with the exception of a few charter schools which have waiting lists years long, and even then he would have to find a way to get to school every day 40+ miles from his home. His only chance to do something better is to go to a local drum corps. But, there isn't one. It's just not going to happen for him. The logistics and expenses make it impossible. High school marching band, like drum corps, is an activity for the well to do. So, if you live in a good neighborhood with a good school district and go to a school with a functional music program, you can have the "drum corps experience." If not, forget it. The corps of days gone by reached out to kids at risk and gave them opportunities they would not have had otherwise. That simply does not exist today, and that's why HS bands have not replaced smaller corps. Edited October 25, 2011 by MarimbasaurusRex 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Well, I suspect if the quad player's school is really that poor, the chance of them having a set of quads is pretty remote. As for the numbers; even at the heyday of small community-based drum corps, I'm guessing (and it truly is just a guess) that there weren't as many drum corps as there are now competitive high school marching bands...even if the bands aren't really "competitive." I've judged enough marching band shows to have seen lots and lots of marching bands I wouldn't suspect even exist. There are perhaps thousands of competing bands that only go to local contests. A 20 mile drive is a big road trip for them. While not every high school band may not have been a cog in the replacement of the role that used to be filled by community small corps, enough across the total spectrum indeed do so that the activity as a whole does accomplish that purpose, IMHO. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 High school marching bands have not really taken the place of hundreds of smaller drum corps. It might make some people feel better to say that, but it's not quite true. Here's why... Only the more affluent school systems have functional music programs at all, let alone good marching bands. In an urban area like central Los Angeles, those kids have never even SEEN a good marching band or really know what one is. They don't have the choice of moving their families to a school district with better resources, instruction, etc. There is no opportunity for these hundreds of thousands of kids (millions on a nationwide scale) to learn the life lessons that drum corps or today's better HS bands provide. We're not talking BOA level here, just a decent program. It simply doesn't exist in many places. These are the areas where smaller drum corps used to thrive. Smaller, and sometimes even bigger and quite successful drum corps used to provide opportunity for kids regardless of economic background or geographic districting. If your school didn't have a good band program, you could join the local drum corps. If your most local corps wasn't so great, you could go to the one across town for the cost of a city bus ride. This, very unfortunately, is a thing of the past. How many great corps came out of urban areas? I'll let others list them if they choose, but consider Bayonne Bridgemen, Boston Crusaders, etc. Here's one example of a student caught in the trap. He's a GREAT quad player and one of the most genuine and hardest working people you will ever meet. Given the opportunity, he could make BD's line, but he will never have that chance. His family lives in south central LA and he went to a high school that has one of the worst music programs in the state. The area is plagued with gang violence, poverty and general misery. Even if his family moved within the district (which is huge) better programs simply don't exist with the exception of a few charter schools which have waiting lists years long, and even then he would have to find a way to get to school every day 40+ miles from his home. His only chance to do something better is to go to a local drum corps. But, there isn't one. It's just not going to happen for him. The logistics and expenses make it impossible. High school marching band, like drum corps, is an activity for the well to do. So, if you live in a good neighborhood with a good school district and go to a school with a functional music program, you can have the "drum corps experience." If not, forget it. The corps of days gone by reached out to kids at risk and gave them opportunities they would not have had otherwise. That simply does not exist today, and that's why HS bands have not replaced smaller corps. 100s of small drum corps no longer exist. Wishing them to still be here won't bring them back. I have not heard many new ideas that will bring them back. Perhaprs SDCA? Most smaller corps are now populated by members who's average age is higher than DCI's age out limit. Fact is, most high schools have marching bands. Fact is, fewer are competing because of the travel costs and shrinking budgets. When you look at the demographics between competitive drum corps and marching bands...they are virtually identical. Affluent suburban districts with families to support the expense of travel and the weekly competitions. Problem is...drum corps is not a scholastic activity. In this, it lacks much of the advantages these competitive marching bands enjoy. They get tax dollars plus parent donations, plus a strong local network of support. Something drum corps last had when VFW and AL were leading the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) Wishing them to still be here won't bring them back. Where did you see that in the post? Asking because I've seen this response from others when I've tried to bring up the differences. And I'm one who doesn't believe the local corps scene will ever return for various reasons (mainly cost). Edited October 25, 2011 by JimF-LowBari 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoTrooper Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 High school marching band, like drum corps, is an activity for the well to do. So, if you live in a good neighborhood with a good school district and go to a school with a functional music program, you can have the "drum corps experience." If not, forget it. The corps of days gone by reached out to kids at risk and gave them opportunities they would not have had otherwise. That simply does not exist today, and that's why HS bands have not replaced smaller corps. I completely disagree with the first sentence. In my area, kids of all stripes play in their high school marching bands. Most of the band directors I know around here TRY and get kids of lower socio-economic status to join band, because it gives them something to belong to and be successful at. And no, they're not crappy programs. Are their kids from well-off families? Sure there are. But the vast majority of kids around here are not "well-to-do." Not saying that isn't the case in some areas, but a blanket statement such as that is dangerous and misrepresentative of the facts. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I completely disagree with the first sentence. In my area, kids of all stripes play in their high school marching bands. Most of the band directors I know around here TRY and get kids of lower socio-economic status to join band, because it gives them something to belong to and be successful at. And no, they're not crappy programs. Are their kids from well-off families? Sure there are. But the vast majority of kids around here are not "well-to-do." Not saying that isn't the case in some areas, but a blanket statement such as that is dangerous and misrepresentative of the facts. he's right...and he's wrong. When it comes to Urban areas, he's dead on. However, in rural areas it can be different. Some schools in rural areas have great marching band programs. Some do not, and with arts being the hot topic of budget cuts, more and more don't even have a band. Drum corps and marching band have some similarities yes. They also have differences. No matter how much people want to say they are the same, they aren't totally the same, never have been and never will be. And I know more than a few great marching bands that do zero in their community, so saying they take the place of smaller community corps of the past is a joke, because they were farmore involved in the community. Playing at the friday night football game doesnt make them active. it means they have to perform at them under orders. will we ever see the return of smaller community corps? maybe, maybe not. But the pigeon holing done by both sides of this argument is like watching congress....the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and neither side wants to yield and look at things more realistically. It's easier to speak in broad generalities and ignore a lot of facts that bring the real issues right into the middle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillmanSop06 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 High school marching bands have not really taken the place of hundreds of smaller drum corps. It might make some people feel better to say that, but it's not quite true. Here's why... Only the more affluent school systems have functional music programs at all, let alone good marching bands. In an urban area like central Los Angeles, those kids have never even SEEN a good marching band or really know what one is. They don't have the choice of moving their families to a school district with better resources, instruction, etc. There is no opportunity for these hundreds of thousands of kids (millions on a nationwide scale) to learn the life lessons that drum corps or today's better HS bands provide. We're not talking BOA level here, just a decent program. It simply doesn't exist in many places. These are the areas where smaller drum corps used to thrive. Smaller, and sometimes even bigger and quite successful drum corps used to provide opportunity for kids regardless of economic background or geographic districting. If your school didn't have a good band program, you could join the local drum corps. If your most local corps wasn't so great, you could go to the one across town for the cost of a city bus ride. This, very unfortunately, is a thing of the past. How many great corps came out of urban areas? I'll let others list them if they choose, but consider Bayonne Bridgemen, Boston Crusaders, etc. Here's one example of a student caught in the trap. He's a GREAT quad player and one of the most genuine and hardest working people you will ever meet. Given the opportunity, he could make BD's line, but he will never have that chance. His family lives in south central LA and he went to a high school that has one of the worst music programs in the state. The area is plagued with gang violence, poverty and general misery. Even if his family moved within the district (which is huge) better programs simply don't exist with the exception of a few charter schools which have waiting lists years long, and even then he would have to find a way to get to school every day 40+ miles from his home. His only chance to do something better is to go to a local drum corps. But, there isn't one. It's just not going to happen for him. The logistics and expenses make it impossible. High school marching band, like drum corps, is an activity for the well to do. So, if you live in a good neighborhood with a good school district and go to a school with a functional music program, you can have the "drum corps experience." If not, forget it. The corps of days gone by reached out to kids at risk and gave them opportunities they would not have had otherwise. That simply does not exist today, and that's why HS bands have not replaced smaller corps. Where I teach, about 50% of our kids are on free or reduced lunch plans. Where I teach, our marching band will be performing at the ISSMA State Championships next weekend at Lucas Oil. Those local drum corps were much worse than small high school marching bands today. Sorry, wrong on nearly all counts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoTrooper Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 he's right...and he's wrong. When it comes to Urban areas, he's dead on. However, in rural areas it can be different. Some schools in rural areas have great marching band programs. Some do not, and with arts being the hot topic of budget cuts, more and more don't even have a band. Drum corps and marching band have some similarities yes. They also have differences. No matter how much people want to say they are the same, they aren't totally the same, never have been and never will be. And I know more than a few great marching bands that do zero in their community, so saying they take the place of smaller community corps of the past is a joke, because they were farmore involved in the community. Playing at the friday night football game doesnt make them active. it means they have to perform at them under orders. will we ever see the return of smaller community corps? maybe, maybe not. But the pigeon holing done by both sides of this argument is like watching congress....the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and neither side wants to yield and look at things more realistically. It's easier to speak in broad generalities and ignore a lot of facts that bring the real issues right into the middle. You make some great points, Jeff. I simply did not want the "all marching band kids are rich" statement to go un-rebutted, because it's just not true. As with anything, there are always exceptions to the rule. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I have been personally involved with several HS bands whose budget would make a pauper blush, and can think of quite a few others off the top of my head. The idea that HS music education can be provided only for the affluent is incorrect. Mike 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) I have been personally involved with several HS bands whose budget would make a pauper blush, and can think of quite a few others off the top of my head. The idea that HS music education can be provided only for the affluent is incorrect. Mike What I'm noticing Mike is a disconnect on what the "experience" really is. Some seem to connect it to competing and think some are not. Really hard to tell as the thought appear to be going in different directions. And like I posted in the other thread, sometimes the School District is the one that's needy and not the kids. Google the mess going on with Harrisburg, PA going bankrupt. Then take in the fact that the city took over the SD a few years back because the SD was in bad shape. Talk about being SOL in so many different ways. Edited October 25, 2011 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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