Where are the Carolina Crown performances on VOD?

[combia1]

As to why we sometimes see performances on the Fan Network and NOT on the DVDs...DVDs require a synch license and this can be an expensive, time consuming process to hammer out. The Fan Network is covered under a "New Media" license or something like that - I can't recall the exact name. But it is usually a faster, less expensive process, and easier to set up.

Corps are required to obtain permission to arrange and perform. In the grand scheme of music licensing, this is usually easier to obtain. In my experience, it usually costs about $150 - 600 per song to arrange. But again, it all depends on the composer, the publisher, etc. Some lesser-known composers are just thrilled you want to use their music and will charger very little or nothing. Other composers are more strict.

DCI/BOA/WGI are responsible for obtaining the synch license for DVDs. This allows you to synch the audio and visual presentations together. I'm going to use a BOA example here, because it is more extreme, but the concept and process and requirements are the same for WGI and DCI. Here goes...

BOA will not know what 12 bands are going to be in finals until the end of semi-finals. Once they do know, only then can they really start the process for obtaining the synch license for the DVDs, because they need to know the exact "combinations" of songs that are going to be put on a DVD and sold together. There is something called a "favored nations" clause that applies. This is how it works. If you have 12 bands on the finals DVD, and let's say each band used four copyrighted pieces of music in each of their shows, that is 48 pieces of legal paperwork you are dealing with. And let's say that 47 of those copyright holders want $1 per tune in licensing, but the 48th copyright holder wants $5. Doing that math, that would NOT be $52 in total licensing fees, but $240 in licensing fees (48 x $5). Whoever asks for the most money, that is what everyone gets! So one copyright holder can have a HUGE impact on the other 47 in this case.

As it relates to DCI, I'm pretty sure Kiwanis Kavaliers did get the synch rights a few years ago, but the royalties that would have been required by this favored nations clause would have made the DVDs way too expensive for DCI to produce and sell.

[SFZFAN]

As to why we sometimes see performances on the Fan Network and NOT on the DVDs...DVDs require a synch license and this can be an expensive, time consuming process to hammer out. The Fan Network is covered under a "New Media" license or something like that - I can't recall the exact name. But it is usually a faster, less expensive process, and easier to set up.

Corps are required to obtain permission to arrange and perform. In the grand scheme of music licensing, this is usually easier to obtain. In my experience, it usually costs about $150 - 600 per song to arrange. But again, it all depends on the composer, the publisher, etc. Some lesser-known composers are just thrilled you want to use their music and will charger very little or nothing. Other composers are more strict.

DCI/BOA/WGI are responsible for obtaining the synch license for DVDs. This allows you to synch the audio and visual presentations together. I'm going to use a BOA example here, because it is more extreme, but the concept and process and requirements are the same for WGI and DCI. Here goes...

BOA will not know what 12 bands are going to be in finals until the end of semi-finals. Once they do know, only then can they really start the process for obtaining the synch license for the DVDs, because they need to know the exact "combinations" of songs that are going to be put on a DVD and sold together. There is something called a "favored nations" clause that applies. This is how it works. If you have 12 bands on the finals DVD, and let's say each band used four copyrighted pieces of music in each of their shows, that is 48 pieces of legal paperwork you are dealing with. And let's say that 47 of those copyright holders want $1 per tune in licensing, but the 48th copyright holder wants $5. Doing that math, that would NOT be $52 in total licensing fees, but $240 in licensing fees (48 x $5). Whoever asks for the most money, that is what everyone gets! So one copyright holder can have a HUGE impact on the other 47 in this case.

As it relates to DCI, I'm pretty sure Kiwanis Kavaliers did get the synch rights a few years ago, but the royalties that would have been required by this favored nations clause would have made the DVDs way too expensive for DCI to produce and sell.

It sounds like you actually know what you're talking about. Very refreshing to see on DCP!

[N.E. Brigand]

Internet streaming is a different set of rights than syncing audio and video on a DVD for sale.

So there are actually five sets of rights that either the corps or DCI negotiates for:

1 Arrangement

2 Performance

3 (Audio) Recording

4 (Video) Synchronization

5 Streaming (what combia1 calls "New Media")

Is that right?

But that doesn't actually address the different treatment accorded the Scouts vs. Crown/Cavs performances. The former were streamed live but not included as synchronized video recordings on the Fan Network. The latter were streamed live and, until this week, carried as synchronized video recordings.

I wonder about perc2100's notion, that DCI never got any response, yes or no, from the rights holders. I've heard of that happening in theatre: you request the rights to use a song as incidental music, you never get an answer, you use the song, the show plays for its allotted month and then closes, and then the rights holder responds.

[CrownStarr]

FWIW I don't remember that at all (Rihanna's sample). I'm curious to see the Blu-rays and see how much it is noticeably altered to me. I remember Crown's We Will Rock You sample (is that still there?), the drum solos, the guitar thing, etc. but I don't remember the Rihanna sample at all.

From a friend on Facebook who's gotten the DVD already:

"basically we will rock you, iron man, all that stuff is all gone. it just cuts to the drum feature"

Too bad, that sounds like one of my favorite memories from the summer won't be on the DVD: when we came out onto the field on Finals night, the crowd was already stomp-stomp-clapping before we'd played a single note. Maybe they'll find some way to include that and then cut past all the samples... fingers crossed!

[perc2100]

From a friend on Facebook who's gotten the DVD already:

"basically we will rock you, iron man, all that stuff is all gone. it just cuts to the drum feature"

Too bad, that sounds like one of my favorite memories from the summer won't be on the DVD: when we came out onto the field on Finals night, the crowd was already stomp-stomp-clapping before we'd played a single note. Maybe they'll find some way to include that and then cut past all the samples... fingers crossed!

That's a bummer; I really dug all of that stuff (honestly, I really dug the entire show/pre-show).

[Beckham]

From a friend on Facebook who's gotten the DVD already:

"basically we will rock you, iron man, all that stuff is all gone. it just cuts to the drum feature"

Too bad, that sounds like one of my favorite memories from the summer won't be on the DVD: when we came out onto the field on Finals night, the crowd was already stomp-stomp-clapping before we'd played a single note. Maybe they'll find some way to include that and then cut past all the samples... fingers crossed!

The crowd stomp stomp clap is still in!

[N.E. Brigand]

Well, I hope after they make the required edits, that the earlier season performances by Crown and Cavs are restored to the Fan Network.

[combia1]

It sounds like you actually know what you're talking about. Very refreshing to see on DCP!

Thanks. I've dealt with copyrights for one of the top-12 corps in the past (that involved some VERY obscure composers and publishers in other countries) and I deal with it every year for a band I work with. I've had to jump through so many hoops, negotiate fees, and most of the time I have been successful in navigating the process. But the group I work with has gotten bit by the "Yeah! We got the rights to perform. And congrats, you made finals and will be on the DVD. But we're sorry, we can't get the synch rights, so there won't be any audio on the DVD, just your visual" bug. It sucks. But you move on.

[N.E. Brigand]

I see that video of the 2011 Carolina Crown and Cavaliers performances have been restored to the Fan Network, sans the unlicensed portions. For instance, Cavaliers at Semifinals have video but no audio from 9:53 to 10:04. (The sample of Bowie singing "The greatest thing you ever learn is just to love and be loved in return" from Nature Boy.) I haven't purchased the CDs or DVDs yet. Presumably it's the same on the DVDs, but how does this passage work on the CDs?

[TeddyBear]

I see that video of the 2011 Carolina Crown and Cavaliers performances have been restored to the Fan Network, sans the unlicensed portions. For instance, Cavaliers at Semifinals have video but no audio from 9:53 to 10:04. (The sample of Bowie singing "The greatest thing you ever learn is just to love and be loved in return" from Nature Boy.) I haven't purchased the CDs or DVDs yet. Presumably it's the same on the DVDs, but how does this passage work on the CDs?

They just cut out that passage from the DVD and CD as if it was never there (I haven't seen what happens in the high camera versions though; they probably just switch to multi-camera quickly just for that cut). The cuts from the Crown and Cavies show surprised me, but they actually work pretty well, especially if one hasn't viewed or heard the shows before.

Edited December 7, 2011 by TeddyBear