SCV Percussion

[actucker]

Yeah, I can agree with you there. The way we overcame the "inconsistency" of a drum major was that we had a metronome sitting in his ear every single minute of every single day during rehearsal. After a while, you can conduct at any tempo for hours upon command without any help.

Yeah. Its a really ambitious approach, and you have to have a really strong membership and a lot of rehearsal time to make it happen. I guess the reason I get so turned off to it is because its so hard to implement at the high school level. Finding a high school kid that can handle that role is hard enough, and then knowing that your weakest freshman has to be able to learn to anticipate time is enough to give you nightmares.

I know the feeling with the whole metronome thing being a percussionist and drum set player myself. I've spent literally hours playing quarter notes with a metronome during undergrad.

[scvjesse]

I guess the reason I get so turned off to it is because its so hard to implement at the high school level. Finding a high school kid that can handle that role is hard enough, and then knowing that your weakest freshman has to be able to learn to anticipate time is enough to give you nightmares.

Being a high school music teacher myself, I feel ya, brother.

[vanguard87]

Yeah. Its a really ambitious approach, and you have to have a really strong membership and a lot of rehearsal time to make it happen. I guess the reason I get so turned off to it is because its so hard to implement at the high school level. Finding a high school kid that can handle that role is hard enough, and then knowing that your weakest freshman has to be able to learn to anticipate time is enough to give you nightmares.

I know the feeling with the whole metronome thing being a percussionist and drum set player myself. I've spent literally hours playing quarter notes with a metronome during undergrad.

Just another data point, but that's exactly how we did it back when I was in SCV, too. Outside of the 35s and/or behind the front hash, we played ahead of the DM. If you were directly in front of the battery you could just sit in their pocket, but otherwise it was a lot of trial and error to figure out how far ahead of the conducting to play. And Dr Beat pounding in everyone's ears, all day long. By mid-July everyone was on auto-pilot for 90% of the show as far as tempo goes.

[DAvery]

Have you ever tried that? The drum major would literally never hear what he's conducting. Ever. The conductor would always feel like he is way ahead of the ensemble if everything fit well enough, leaving him no ability to know if what he's doing is working. In theory, that would work if you had a conductor who could completely ignore that feeling that something is wrong all the time. Considering the risk vs the benefit, I'll take finding other ways to make the music come alive over a conductor moving the time around. Some of the greatest music I've ever heard had no conductor. Drum corps can do it too.

Actually I have been doing that for over 20 years with my band. The students are taught to listen to a particular person or section, depending on the music and/or drill. And as far as a conductor "would always feel like he is way ahead of the ensemble", that is what a conductor feels. The musicians RE-act to the conductor's actions. The conductor is always ahead of the beat. Maybe a little, maybe a lot depending on the situation. As far as having no conductor on the field, I have been doing that for a long time also. Depending on the music selection, arranging, and drill it is often possible to not have a conductor. Since I control all three of those aspects, I tend to use a conductor for about half the show. It's funny because most, if not all, spectators do not realize there is no conductor. IMO, if you are going to have a conductor, they should be the time keeper. If a center snare, or whatever, is the time keeper - it's pointless to have someone flapping their arms. It's just for show at that point. Also, I have never used a Dr. Beat.

Edited June 27, 2012 by DAvery

[perc2100]

Sometimes in this venue we get so far away from living, breathing music it ceases to be human.

Man, you aren't kidding (except by "sometimes" I think you really mean "always"). However, drum corps is not necessarily a medium for musical expression, at least not in the way you're saying. It's a medium of musical and visual coordination, and there is no way that can be achieved with legit musical expression. Obviously during performances tempo will fluctuate a bit, solos might vary slightly from a phrasing standpoint, but for the most part because of the coordination shows need to be ridiculously consistent: which kinda takes most of the 'breathing' and expressionism out.

[DAvery]

Man, you aren't kidding (except by "sometimes" I think you really mean "always"). However, drum corps is not necessarily a medium for musical expression, at least not in the way you're saying. It's a medium of musical and visual coordination, and there is no way that can be achieved with legit musical expression. Obviously during performances tempo will fluctuate a bit, solos might vary slightly from a phrasing standpoint, but for the most part because of the coordination shows need to be ridiculously consistent: which kinda takes most of the 'breathing' and expressionism out.

I don't think it is always. Well, maybe always when the battery is playing. If there are section of the music that only have wind parts and there is not a lot of movement, sometimes there can be a true musical phrase or two. But those times are few and far between. This activity has always been about complexity. And the more complex the music and/or drill, the more consistent the time has to be.

[actucker]

Actually I have been doing that for over 20 years with my band. The students are taught to listen to a particular person or section, depending on the music and/or drill. And as far as a conductor "would always feel like he is way ahead of the ensemble", that is what a conductor feels. The musicians RE-act to the conductor's actions. The conductor is always ahead of the beat. Maybe a little, maybe a lot depending on the situation. As far as having no conductor on the field, I have been doing that for a long time also. Depending on the music selection, arranging, and drill it is often possible to not have a conductor. Since I control all three of those aspects, I tend to use a conductor for about half the show. It's funny because most, if not all, spectators do not realize there is no conductor. IMO, if you are going to have a conductor, they should be the time keeper. If a center snare, or whatever, is the time keeper - it's pointless to have someone flapping their arms. It's just for show at that point. Also, I have never used a Dr. Beat.

Sure, its just for show. So is a tenor crossover, or a drill move, or a horn pop. Its all for show. That's what we do. We're constantly trying to keep the audience from seeing the puppeteer's strings. Why should the drum major be any different. Again, whether the performers or the drum major controls the time is irrelevant. The kind of musical flexibility your are suggesting (where the conductor can just pull or push the time at will) is just not possible in this activity. It may work for a smaller high school marching band, who doesn't cover the field the way drum corps do, but there's a reason the vast majority of the activity strives for consistent tempos from rep to rep. The complexity of drill and music being attempted is simply too high for those kinds of variables.

[Noname]

No matter what, unless the ensemble is right behind the pit, the drum major will always feel ahead to a certain extent. If he's trying to go off of what he's listening to, the tempo will keep slowing down. Usually a drum major goes off of the center snare's feet, if they're moving.

I think you don't need a drum major. It's more helpful when you don't know what the drumline is playing compared to your parts. But that would usually only happen after learning new parts. I think even then, you can get by with a doctor.

[DAvery]

The complexity of drill and music being attempted is simply too high for those kinds of variables.

So you are saying the music played today in corps is harder than, say, your local symphony orchestra? IMO in drum corps now, and in the past, it has always been about complexity. We used to have a saying when I marched "harder, faster, louder". That is what wins. Complexity does not equal musical. Again, IMO we sacrifice music for complexity. We subdivide the beat, and then subdivide it again, we put numbers on everything from stick height to time in an effort to have nine snares play the same part. Is it cool? Hell yes! Is it musical? Usually not so much.

Edited June 27, 2012 by DAvery

[actucker]

So you are saying the music played today in corps is harder than, say, your local symphony orchestra? IMO in drum corps now, and in the past, it has always been about complexity. We used to have a saying when I marched "harder, faster, louder". That is what wins. Complexity does not equal musical. Again, IMO we sacrifice music for complexity. We subdivide the beat, and then subdivide it again, we put numbers on everything from stick height to time in an effort to have nine snares play the same part. Is it cool? Hell yes! Is it musical? Usually not so much.

Is the music itself harder? No. Probably not. But the demands on the performer are very different. A player in an orchestra stays in one place, with a stable listening environment, and is usually within 30 feet of the conductor. That stability of environment allows greater freedom of communication between the individuals in the orchestra and the conductor. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that.

So yes, in the time department, we sacrifice a little bit of musical freedom in order to do what we do. But that doesn't mean that the activity is not musical. Some of the micro phrasing that these ensembles are using (while it might be the same micro phrasing every night) is pretty nuanced and detailed. A lot of the attention to detail I have in my own playing and teaching is a direct result of the demands of drum corps. Brass lines spend hours really working out exactly what articulation they want to use, and while that may not be the way a smaller section would do it in an orchestra, it doesn't make it any less musical. Its just a necessity required of the activity. In what orchestra do you have to get 16-20 tubas to play the same way? Its much easier for 2 or 3 players in a section to listen to a lead player and match. Even violin sections spend lots of time going over bowings and articulations with their lead players.

Ensemble music is a game of getting everyone on the same page. Different ensembles do that in different ways. Sometimes there is a defined leader in that process, such as in an orchestra with a conductor. Other times, its more about group communication like a jazz quartet. In drum corps, that can only be achieved through consistent repetition due to the sheer number of performers and the complexity of the environment. It is a unique musical activity in that the ensemble moves. Just because its consistent, doesn't mean it isn't musical.