supersop Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) You should have, because you are not: Phantom was 5th in Percussion, 6th in Brass, 7th in Music Ensemble, and 7th in Visual Performance. Half the captions. They were then 11th in GE Visual and 9th in GE music. 10th in Color Guard. That is a rather wide range of caption placements (5th to 11th), and completely speaks against what you were just saying. Go back further then. Look at Quarters and Semis. Then look 2 weeks back .. a month back. Finals did have more variation .. but Semis didn't .. nor did Quarters. Semi's: 9th in Visual GE, 9th in Music GE, 9th in Visual, 7th in Music total: Sub-captions 9,9,9 GE Visual - 7,9,8 GE Music - 9 Total GE - 9,9,10 Visual - 9 Total Visual - 7,7,6 Music - 7 Total Music Not the same is it? How about 3 weeks before that? 4th in Percussion, 5th in Ensemble, 7th in Brass How about 2 weeks before that? 3rd in Percussion, 6th in Brass, 6th in Ensemble Semifinals 2 weeks later ? 6th in Percussion, 7th in Ensemble, 7th in Brass Flipside ... Visual GE scores 3 weeks prior: 11th, 9th and 10th overall, 2 weeks prior 9th, 11th and 10th overall, Semis 9th, 9th, 9th. Finals 11th, 11th, 11th. Hmmmmmmmmm All of this proves nothing right? What's worse is that you're trying to discredit the merit of my post based on my NOT looking at the recaps from 4 years ago. The jist of my original post was that SCV and the other corps below them might have scored higher in specific subcaptions had the judges actually known what Cadets were going to score. I'm sure that by finals .... Those rank and rate scores will be pegged .......... it's not hard to do so when you have 5 times where ALL of the corps meet head to head in advance of finals night. All that said ........ PR only improved from an 18.5 in Atlanta to an 18.7 on finals night in percussion ......... 2 weeks later. Caption rankings don't always tell the full story. The raw numbers bare out even more information in this case. Edited July 14, 2012 by supersop 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Go back further then. Look at Quarters and Semis. Then look 2 weeks back .. a month back. Finals did have more variation .. but Semis didn't .. nor did Quarters. Semi's: 9th in Visual GE, 9th in Music GE, 9th in Visual, 7th in Music total: Sub-captions 9,9,9 GE Visual - 7,9,8 GE Music - 9 Total GE - 9,9,10 Visual - 9 Total Visual - 7,7,6 Music - 7 Total Music Not the same is it? How about 3 weeks before that? 4th in Percussion, 5th in Ensemble, 7th in Brass How about 2 weeks before that? 3rd in Percussion, 6th in Brass, 6th in Ensemble Semifinals 2 weeks later ? 6th in Percussion, 7th in Ensemble, 7th in Brass Flipside ... Visual GE scores 3 weeks prior: 11th, 9th and 10th overall, 2 weeks prior 9th, 11th and 10th overall, Semis 9th, 9th, 9th. Finals 11th, 11th, 11th. Hmmmmmmmmm All of this proves nothing right? You are determined to see a conspiracy and thus will do so no matter what. I imagine you will simply move the goal posts again if I respond, so I will refrain. It is interesting that you fail to mention that their percussion placement went UP from Semis to Finals...but again, you will see what you see. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 What's worse is that you're trying to discredit the merit of my post based on my NOT looking at the recaps from 4 years ago. The jist of my original post was that SCV and the other corps below them might have scored higher in specific subcaptions and the judges actually known what Cadets were going to score. I'm sure that by finals .... Those rank and rate scores will be pegged .......... it's not hard to do so when you have 5 times where ALL of the corps meet head to head in advance of finals night. All that said ........ PR only improved from an 18.5 in Atlanta to an 18.7 on finals night in percussion ......... 2 weeks later. Caption rankings don't always tell the full story. The raw numbers bare out even more information in this case. You attempted to make a fact-based post in which you could not be bothered to look up the facts. Do not attempt to somehow pin that error on me for pointing it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 You attempted to make a fact-based post in which you could not be bothered to look up the facts. Do not attempt to somehow pin that error on me for pointing it out. 18.5 to an 18.7 in 2 weeks isn't a fact? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 18.5 to an 18.7 in 2 weeks isn't a fact? You know exactly what I am talking about. You admonished me for calling out your original post. Which contained no numbers of any kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I hate commenting on scores to begin with ....... I rarely do. I hate looking up old recaps to prove a point to anyone. I especially hate it when others try to dump on someones post for not doing so. There's nothing wrong with posting an opinion without looking up hard cold numbers, who was judging, if the turf was wet that night, were they in a dome ... etc etc. My general opinion is that the WAY judges do their jobs is less than adequate. I offered an example that I believe, most on here agree with. Now were twaddling over minutia. Anyone can try to argue a point or prove a case based on a recap ....... a recap that is subjective, unsubstantiable and frankly, something that no judge ever has to answer for unless corps are making complaints to the head judge about their methods. You might be right .. I might be right .. we both may be wrong ... but my opinion is My Opinion. Your interjection had NOTHING to do with tonight's show, the scores, the recap, the sub-captions, nor the performing corps abilities or shortcomings at this stage of the season. In the end .. these numbers mean NADA! My arguing things one way or the other is irrelevant and I know that. That's why I usually stay out of it. The person I was responding to (or about) is entitled to believe the way that they do .... scores should go up when you put in 16 hour days for a week and then have nothing to show for it. There should be an explanation. I offered one. What are you offering? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 If you don't believe I offered an explanation, then you did not read my posts. Debate about these things is perfectly OK. It is absolutely part of what this board is here for. We are, all of us, entitled to our own opinions. What we are NOT entitled to, is our own FACTS. And when one attempts to make a persuasive argument, it has never been a valid debate tactic to say "just take my word for 'X'". That is how misinformation is spread. Your later efforts into researching the recaps are absolutely commendable. I believe they say something different than you do...but that is OK, because we can interpret the data differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCHEZman Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I think there is a notion that after big new changes are put in, a dramatic rise in score occurs. I suspect (in the case of Cadets), the changes will move up the score once the roughness is gone. Two days of rehearsing 56 pages of changes doesnt bring you to the level of proficiency that you were at before said change. I think they end up 3-4 tonight but ultimately 2-3 at finals. Its a very strong show but judges love their Blue Team and Crown is wonderful and it may be their year, we'll see. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdlykdad Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I think there is a notion that after big new changes are put in, a dramatic rise in score occurs. I suspect (in the case of Cadets), the changes will move up the score once the roughness is gone. Two days of rehearsing 56 pages of changes doesnt bring you to the level of proficiency that you were at before said change. I think they end up 3-4 tonight but ultimately 2-3 at finals. Its a very strong show but judges love their Blue Team and Crown is wonderful and it may be their year, we'll see. What do you mean by judges love their Blue Team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCHEZman Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I think any direction they go with respect to design is embarrassed by judging community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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