New Ending for PR

[chaos001]

Someone said it, but Regiment's 2008 win was due to the high percussion. It also helped that that came to the gate ready to throw down. I remember sitting the stands and feeling some serious vibe as the entered the field. I called it before the show officially started.

And I remember my legs almost went out from under me whenever I heard, "Blue Devils."

[wvu80]

You make a really good point. I marched brass and really don't have an ear to distinguish the difference between a 1st place drumline and, say a drumline that places a half a point behind that first place line.

LOL! Nobody has that kind of ear! It's simply splitting hairs at that world class level. If you had five top judges listen to five top drumlines judged by a sixth to be within a half point of each other, I can just about guarantee you those 5 judges would get give you 5 different numbers, so you are in good company.

FYI drums at their basic level are judged just like brass; attack, body of the notes, and release. One of the most impressive things a snare line can do that impresses me is play a roll together, with a nice clean accent release; rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrBAP!

Easy to write, hard to do, TOGETHER.

[MelloHorn13]

And I remember my legs almost went out from under me whenever I heard, "Blue Devils."

I was outside the stadium rounding up my kids to get headed towards the bus, but we could hear the scores out the PA system. There was some lady balling her eyes out when they said Blue Devils. She was so happy Phantom won. That win was also a personal for me. Alot of guys that I marched with/taught in indoor when they were little fetuses were in that drumline. Huge accomplishments for those guys and every instructor that taught them in Americanos Indoor and Pioneer Indoor.

[Madbass4]

You make a really good point. I marched brass and really don't have an ear to distinguish the difference between a 1st place drumline and, say a drumline that places a half a point behind that first place line. I wish I could hear that difference sometimes so I wouldn't get so angry with the judges about those placements.

As a drummer yourself, what do you think makes Rennick's percussion books so much more impressive than other caption heads' books? Specifically, do you think that Rennick's writing would have made PR's music GE scores that much better? Would love to hear your thoughts...

Well, I'm a former student of Rennick, and I've played in three of his lines. What I learned when at the Univ. of North Texas is that what separated Rennick from the rest of the pack (in other words - made him WIN) was that his writing employed incredible dynamics - and of course Paul made sure his members effectively executed them. Aside from that, his writing tends to be a middle ground between "flashy" and "musical" (usually more on the musical side) in the sense of using classical influences, traditional rudiments, and demand from both a musical and ensemble-difficulty standpoint to get his point across. Keeping this in mind, the cherry on top that solidifies Paul's product is his complete and sacrosanct marriage to clean drumming, to the point where the beginning of the summer is no excuse for dirt. There was a kid on youtube who posted something from Scott Johnson (from a Blue Devil clinic) about how he said that if your drumline is playing clean early in the season, then your book is too easy (incidentally, the Blue Devils this summer are playing a very ambitious book, which was not very clean early in the summer). Anyone from North Texas or Rennick's lines will tell you that this philosophy is simply not acceptable. Usually all of Rennick's lines have started out drumming cleaner than the majority of others every June (even the ones who have not won, meaning all but three). It's just a standard that not all drumlines value. Some value difficulty in the sense of extremely visible showmanship (in other words predominantly "flashy") with dirt allowed because it's June - to the point where they wait for it to get cleaner as they get more comfortable with it to the point of finally having a product worthy of "Finals" (while ignoring the rest of us who can't attend it). Others just keep their standards, respectively.

Bottom line is that Paul is what you call a "director" in the very best sense of the word - he knows what he wants, and he elicits that response better than many others... and that is to play clean and play musically. When a lot of us veterans watched the 2011 Phantom Regiment Drumline in the lot, one of the most distracting things we heard (other than early summer dirt, which we weren't used to hearing so exposed), was a rock backbeat in the pit during a ballad. Knowing full well what the corps' repertoire was, we were just shaking our heads (granted, they scrapped that backbeat, after a heated debate I'm sure). STYLE issues are also something that you won't really find issue with in Paul's writing. Politically, you can also bet that Paul's status and reputation is not something to be toyed with (as compared to other caption heads who are doing their jobs for the first time), but that's not something I'll really go into. ;)

Edited July 25, 2012 by Madbass4

[ChrisVT2003]

Well, I'm a former student of Rennick, and I've played in three of his lines. What I learned when at the Univ. of North Texas is that what separated Rennick from the rest of the pack (in other words - made him WIN) was that his writing employed incredible dynamics - and of course Paul made sure his members effectively executed them. Aside from that, his writing tends to be a middle ground between "flashy" and "musical" (usually more on the musical side) in the sense of using classical influences, traditional rudiments, and demand from both a musical and ensemble-difficulty standpoint to get his point across. Keeping this in mind, the cherry on top that solidifies Paul's product is his complete and sacrosanct marriage to clean drumming, to the point where the beginning of the summer is no excuse for dirt. There was a kid on youtube who posted something from Scott Johnson (from a Blue Devil clinic) about how he said that if your drumline is playing clean early in the season, then your book is too easy (incidentally, the Blue Devils this summer are playing a very ambitious book, which was not very clean early in the summer). Anyone from North Texas or Rennick's lines will tell you that this philosophy is simply not acceptable. Usually all of Rennick's lines have started out drumming cleaner than the majority of others every June (even the ones who have not won, meaning all but three). It's just a standard that not all drumlines value. Some value difficulty in the sense of extremely visible showmanship (in other words predominantly "flashy") with dirt allowed because it's June - to the point where they wait for it to get cleaner as they get more comfortable with it to the point of finally having a product worthy of "Finals" (while ignoring the rest of us who can't attend it). Others just keep their standards, respectively.

Bottom line is that Paul is what you call a "director" in the very best sense of the word - he knows what he wants, and he elicits that response better than many others... and that is to play clean and play musically. When a lot of us veterans watched the 2011 Phantom Regiment Drumline in the lot, one of the most distracting things we heard (other than early summer dirt, which we weren't used to hearing so exposed), was a rock backbeat in the pit during a ballad. Knowing full well what the corps' repertoire was, we were just shaking our heads (granted, they scrapped that backbeat, after a heated debate I'm sure). STYLE issues are also something that you won't really find issue with in Paul's writing. Politically, you can also bet that Paul's status and reputation is not something to be toyed with (as compared to other caption heads who are doing their jobs for the first time), but that's not something I'll really go into. ;)

Well, that was actually very insightful! I just wish Paul never left Phantom Regiment....we could have really used him this year! PR definitely would be title contending if he was the caption head. If Regiment was scoring first in drums, I'm sure there would be a 3-way race right now instead of just a 2-way race. Knowing Paul like you do, why do you think he changed camps and headed over to Santa Clara? My first thought was that he may have done all he could have at PR and wanted to grow a new line. But then why did he take all the drummers with him? By doing that he wasn't starting off new, he was just moving cross country! The second thing I thought was money, but this is DCI and there is no real money--at least I don't think there is enough to make a big difference. Then the last thought I had was maybe he was a Vangaurd homer and just loved their corps more than he loved PR. Anyways, I have no idea why and I am just speculating.

Why do you think he left?

[Phantom1701]

Great insight Madbass. I actually think his lines and results speak to exactly that. In another thread it seems that all the PR Phans are somehow glad to have Gwaltney over Rennick, which is just ridiculous. I had a senior graduate my line this year and really encouraged him to try out for SCV over every other corps just for the Rennick factor. What I like is that he doesn't overwrite the notes for the sake of playing a bunch of notes. It is musical, while still having incredible technical demand. Just top notch stuff.

[Phantombari1]

Madbass put into words what I couldn't in the PR thread I created last week about my concerns with the Drumline. In short, I believed that percussion would cost them a shot at the title primarily due to musicality and execution.

Back in 2008 when PR made the west coast swing here in Phoenix I remember Paul telling the purcussion section that they were doing things that other corps would not do. That told me all I needed to know about how the season would turn out. I predicted that day Phantom would win the title.

If I could find the thread I'd repost it.

To many in my opinion think WGI success means success in DCI. I know many kindly refuted my concerns but I believe percussion judging and placements are decided by tenths. When you're over a point away from your competition in this caption there is no catching up. At least I don't recall that ever happening in DCI percussion.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Phantombari1

[snaredude08]

Well, I'm a former student of Rennick, and I've played in three of his lines. What I learned when at the Univ. of North Texas is that what separated Rennick from the rest of the pack (in other words - made him WIN) was that his writing employed incredible dynamics - and of course Paul made sure his members effectively executed them. Aside from that, his writing tends to be a middle ground between "flashy" and "musical" (usually more on the musical side) in the sense of using classical influences, traditional rudiments, and demand from both a musical and ensemble-difficulty standpoint to get his point across.

There's a certain amount wrong with this. Not wrong in the sense that it's untrue about Rennick -- wrong in that you think it doesn't apply to almost all of the big names out there, including Gwaltney. First, the part about dynamic contrast. Go to Youtube and find videos of MCM's snareline from the last two years in particular (though most years and most sections of the batterie would also work, these past two years just stick out in my mind). Simply put, Gwaltney's music has an extremely defined and precise system of dynamics. It obviously has a different feel from Rennick, but rest assured that his lines set just as much of a premium on absolute dynamic precision and uniformity. Also, unlike Rennick's writing at SCV and PR, where velocity of music contributed largely to the effect, Gwaltney's writing tends to take a little more examination to really appreciate. There's an abundance of "micro-phrasing", if you will, and subtle use of texture both between different sections and within a single section. It doesn't hit you in the face first rep like Rennick's tends to, but if you really listen analytically and with a good knowledge of rudimental vocabulary, you can really appreciate how nuanced and well thought-out it is. Granted, his book at PR has seemed a few notches tamer than what he puts out at MCM, and I'm not sure why that is -- I think writing to his usual standard of difficulty would help overall musical effect for sure. Not that I don't like Rennick's writing, because I like it quite a lot.

Edited August 15, 2013 by snaredude08

[ChrisVT2003]

LOL! Nobody has that kind of ear! It's simply splitting hairs at that world class level. If you had five top judges listen to five top drumlines judged by a sixth to be within a half point of each other, I can just about guarantee you those 5 judges would get give you 5 different numbers, so you are in good company.

FYI drums at their basic level are judged just like brass; attack, body of the notes, and release. One of the most impressive things a snare line can do that impresses me is play a roll together, with a nice clean accent release; rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrBAP!

Easy to write, hard to do, TOGETHER.

As a brass player, this tidbit is very helpful in my understanding of how percussion is judged. I can see the difficulty and demand such an analysis would place on the battery. They have a ton of notes. Playing each one with a perfect attack, release and dynamic blows my mind. I guess my only other question would be how a judge would go on about evaluating a pit section. I know the attacks and releases must also be a factor but it seems to me there may be a bit different take on how a judge incorporates their analysis of the pit's performance in combination with the battery. Anyone know this answer?

[scout9193]

I must say these most recent postings of the thread has been some of the best discussion I've seen on DCP this year...thanks specifically to Madbass4 & snaredude08...good stuff...

CM

Edited July 25, 2012 by scout9193