Toby Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 1. no 2. about as fair as you can get 3. yes 4. no end of story pretty much. it's a new system and i think corps will adjust. Or some have adjusted already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 sIMPLY JOT DOWN HOW YOU FEEL THE LAST 30 - 40 YEARS SHOULD HAVE WNET,,THEN, WHEN THE NEXT PERSON WRITES DOWN DIFFERENT ANSWERS AND CALLS YOU CRAZY, AND A THIRD WRITES DOWN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SET OF ANSWERS, THERES NO WAY YOU COULD CALL CORRUPTION. jUDGES, LIKE US, ARE HUMAN, AND WANT TO TRY TO BE/DO THEIR BEST...THEY ALL HAVE LITTLE THINGS THAT DRIVE THEIR DECISIONS. sorry for the caps, really, I am, I wasnt watching when typing, and I dont want to write it over. Geoffrey REPLY IN ALL CAPS... Just kidding - I understand. I am actually okay with much of the way the past 30 years has went. I do not think they know how to use some of their changes. A majority of the fans are not a fan of electronics and amps but it is still on the field. The fans hate it because the corps do not know how to use it. Pretty much the same with much of the movement/choreography for horns and drums. These new rules create difficulty in not just the corps but also in judging. Honestly, I believe the corps use these new toys in their playbox to much - It is like to much chrome on a rednecks jeep - A little tacky. Learn how to use a tool before showing everyone how bad you are with it. or as they use to say in drum corps - "practice at home - only bring your a-game." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Or some have adjusted already. bingo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDFIddle Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Subjectivity is the face that corruption hides behind. The answer is, where have you been for years? I'm fairly certain there are countless threads in this forum that bring this topic up. My argument would say yes, but the activity is so subjective and prone to human judging something that is highly competitive (yes I did say HUMANS because as a human we will all have a bias related to something that we feel so strongly about). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Subjectivity is the face that corruption hides behind. I like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Drum corps is a pecking order. Yes, some corps have better shows, better designs, and overall cleaner shows, but some corps could be flipped around just based on the order of appearance. The order of appearance is usually determined from the year prior. For most DCI shows (besides regionals (except for Minneapolis)), the order is the same way. The corps that finished last will go on first, and the corps that finished first goes on last. For regionals, other than Minny, they aren't set by the year prior, but rather "slotted" by the previous regional using a random draw. These regionals, are still subjective, based upon the previous year. It's a viscous circle. Judges make their placement decisions based upon the previous corps. The combination of that and the order of appearance based on the previous year makes it easy for fans to call it "favoritism", or "bias", or "corrupt", or whatever. Judges know what a 20.00 in a caption should look/sound like. If corps were mixed, every show, then this would be the ideal way of judging. Unfortunately, this makes judging so hard. I do believe that this would shake up the current placements a lot, even more than fan votes would. Back to this one - I agree that "Random Draw" may settle a little issue in creating a more "balanced" approach to judging BUT I also understand why placement is used for show order. The shows are basically like a retail store and their product is the corps shows. In a retail store things are placed on a shelf in a "Good, Better, Best" posture to ensure that you see everything before making the best decision. They place the higher scoring corps at the end of the night to make certain people buy tickets - That is usually the higher draw. Is it right? On the retail level, yes. On the fairness level, no? Milk is in the back of the grocery store to insure that you have to see many other products before getting your milk. BD, Crown, Cadets and so on (sorry to leave folks out) have the higher brand recognition and reputation - So they are placed with the milk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Ask the Bridgemen! (1977) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyTenor Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 A decade is truly lightening fast... WOW!!! How far is that in light years? Sorry for the sarcasm but I live in a world of daily deadlines where creative changes by the minute. DCI is a snail in comparison and much of the evolution that you discuss is not really needed - it is the cause of many of the everlasting problems. They need to get a grasp on the changes they make before stepping forward. Design process 101: Problem > Concept > Design > TEST > Then back to problem to correct your mistakes DCI is really bad at those last two steps. Well, I'm going to have to give you a plus to offset the minus someone gave you because, IMO, you are exactly right. DCI has become so myopic in some ways that they can't objectively evaluate their own product. Rules changes that have effectively pushed legacy fans (you know, the ones with the deep pockets willing to spend it on drum corps?) away are not subject to review or repeal. Someone tried to propose the repeal of amplification several years ago. They were barely given a chance to propose the repeal, let alone a chance to present their proposal without prejudice. This is where the system fails us. The lack of review. Some changes are bad changes, but they remain because the DCI community can't admit they made a hasty decision without testing the effect, then reviewing the results before moving forward. In the case of amplification (and later electronics) the argument was that they had already been using it in marching band for years. We were led to believe they had worked out all the kinks. Well, here we are a couple of years down the road, and we're still experiencing poor quality. (IMO, it was still bad in marching band, but that's another discussion that has a life of it's own.) Garry in Vegas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Thank you Mr. Crunchy. Amps and electronics could work. So could video projection, laser light shows, fireworks and woodwinds. But are they necessary for the drum corps experience? Not really. and how would you judge them? There are some decisions like this that have really altered the design within the activity. I will not say good or bad. I can say that the shows do not read as "cohesive" as they once did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 REPLY IN ALL CAPS... Just kidding - I understand. A majority of the fans are not a fan of electronics and amps but it is still on the field. The fans hate it because the corps do not know how to use it. Pretty much the same with much of the movement/choreography for horns and drums. That is a ludicrous statement: one that is obviously immeasurable. YOU might not be a fan of electronics. YOU might hate 'em: maybe even your friends agree with you. But to say "the majority" of fans are not fans of electronics, or insinuate that "the majority of fans" hate it is just wrong, or at the very least conjecture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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