Subpar camera work during broadcasts...

[Pete Freedman]

Ok, forgive me for being harsh here Pete, but have you ever produced, participated in, or created a major broadcast for television? (and I'm not talking about the high school band show that ran on local access cable at 3 in the morning...) Do you know the limitations of a 30 foot jib outfitted with a Sony vs. one outfitted with a JVC HD cam of similar spec? Do you know the difference between Prime Lenses and Prime Time? If you don't then DON'T PLAY DIRECTOR. YOU DON'T HAVE CLUE ONE WHAT IT TAKES TO PUT ON A PRODUCTION.

I couldn't disagree more. I don't know how to make a Ford either, but I'm certainly entitled to comment on them if I bought one - even if I didn't buy one. There is no such principle that only those who are experienced making a product are knowledgeable enough to criticize it. Every other product is open to criticism by the customers, and generally such criticism is considered valuable input that can be used to improve the product. They even ask for such input on the side of the package. Check your cereal box. It's not because they think you're an expert at making cereal. It's because knowing the customer's perspective on the product is a critical success factor.

Also, you are implying that my suggestions, which consisted entirely of camera selection in the booth, would increase costs. How so?

While viewers such as yourself have a right to express dissatisfaction with any element of a broadcast, it's another thing to start playing "Director" when you haven't clue one what actually goes into creating a show of this magnitude.

No, I have a right to do that too.

First, as I've posted before there were definite moments that weren't great in the current production - but for the love of all things holy will you understand that Tom Blair actually knows what he's doing! (For the record I don't know Tom personally, and I'm not being paid to defend the man and his company - but from a professional perspective I'm impressed).

I am also impressed by the scale of the production, and with what they are able to accomplish for drum corps. And I wasn't criticizing this year in particular (it was a relatively good one), or Mr. Blair in particular. I specifically mentioned "the old tapes" in my post. That said, I do know what I like, and whenever I've been in a group of people watching DCI broadcasts, there are inevitably long periods of frustration for the audience because of the lack of appreciation of the importance of drill to the viewer. Pointing this out is a good thing. I'm sure Mr. Blair is a big boy and can handle it.

I have no particular issue with your other points. They have nothing to do with my point that they should focus on the pressbox angle during drill moves. The PBS history stuff is interesting.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Pete Freedman

[wvu80]

The argument "If you can't do better then don't criticize" is not valid. (respectful snip)

2) I really liked the commentary during the PBS shows, and I like it during the theater broadcast. I would love to hear it during the FN broadcasts. I know, $.

-

WAITASECOND HERE!

I'm getting ready to take off my gloves so you and I can go bare knuckles, because I can't believe what I think I just heard!

But I think I better clarify first before I get bloodied, are you talking about the commentary IN BETWEEN shows, or the OLD PBS feeds where there was commentary DURING THE PERFORMANCE. I think I am overreacting just a tad, but I want to be sure what you are suggesting.

One answer will having us parting ways as friends, the other answer will have me buying you a beer.

[Pete Freedman]

I remember that! It was horrifying!

I think he just means the 'interstitial' commentary.

[Crown Phan]

Hearing broadcasters talk just to hear their own voices drives me buggy! Take Boston Crusaders 2011, during Big, Loud & Live. Rondinaro and DeLucia were talking during their entire pre-show! I know it isn't judged but that doesn't mean it isn't important. Not to pick on them it happens everywhere. A good example was the olympics this year.

Sorry for the vent it is just a major pet peeve of mine.

[wvu80]

I remember that! It was horrifying!

I think he just means the 'interstitial' commentary.

Can you say that on DCP? I thought that was one of the words that Mr. Boo banned...

<--dada emoticon

Edited August 22, 2012 by wvu80

[mn trumpter guy]

Ok, forgive me for being harsh here Pete, but have you ever produced, participated in, or created a major broadcast for television? (and I'm not talking about the high school band show that ran on local access cable at 3 in the morning...) Do you know the limitations of a 30 foot jib outfitted with a Sony vs. one outfitted with a JVC HD cam of similar spec? Do you know the difference between Prime Lenses and Prime Time? If you don't then DON'T PLAY DIRECTOR. YOU DON'T HAVE CLUE ONE WHAT IT TAKES TO PUT ON A PRODUCTION.

While viewers such as yourself have a right to express dissatisfaction with any element of a broadcast, it's another thing to start playing "Director" when you haven't clue one what actually goes into creating a show of this magnitude.

First, as I've posted before there were definite moments that weren't great in the current production - but for the love of all things holy will you understand that Tom Blair actually knows what he's doing! (For the record I don't know Tom personally, and I'm not being paid to defend the man and his company - but from a professional perspective I'm impressed).

His suggestions were all good, in my opinion. They were simply suggestions in how he thinks a show should be shown, from a camera point of view. As in "If the drill is exciting, please show the drill." That doesn't take a degree in anything to figure out. Not that I'm not impressed with your knowledge, but the fact that Pete doesn't have your experience does not invalidate his statements. You don't have to know anything about equipment to know that if something important is happening here, then you darn well show what is happening here.

Secondly; If Tom Blair is in charge of running things, and people are dissatisfied with the product he puts out, then maybe he doesn't know what he is doing. Are the broadcasts and DVD's perfect? Heck no! Are they terrible? Heck no! But there's room for improvement. I mean no personal insult to Mr. Blair, nor anyone else involved with the productions DCI puts out, but knowing what you are doing, and being able to do it properly are two very different things. For instance: I teach bands. I know how to make a band sound good. Do I always execute that in the best possible way? HECK NO I DO NOT. I know this; so I'm always looking for ways to improve. In fact I submit that if Mr. Blair knows what he is doing to the point you suggest, he is eager to hear people's thoughts and concerns. If he knows what he is doing, then he will know what is a good suggestion, and what to ignore.

Forgive me if I am too harsh: I think you are getting defensive of video production crews unnecessarily. We are not here to criticize for the sake of tearing someone or something down; we're here to offer our thoughts and suggestions on how a product may be improved.

[kickhaltsforlife]

I honestly don't really have a problem with the broadcast. I didn't even notice that the cameras were changing so much. I was just watching a corps performance. I like to get different perspective than just the high cam. I like seeing close-ups. I get a better feel for the show. And I can get a better feel for what the visual judges are seeing on the field. From a fuzzy high camera view on FN you can't really see the dirt in BDs show. Then you see close-ups of individuals, and forms at different angles and you see what they struggle with. Yeah judges will pick some of that out. I like to see all aspects of the show.

Pit close-ups I actually hate. With all the OVER performing pits do nowadays with all their dancing around and goofy faces and stuff.. it's just awkward up close. I've never been a fan of pits that do that anyway. I understand movement to play in time... but keep it too a minimum and just plays your notes!!!!! Maybe pits would be cleaner if they weren't doing all the extraneous stuff. And before I get blasted, yeah you can get into the performance, and look like you really enjoy that sus cymbal roll... but some are over the top. Glassmen's synth player come to mind??? (especially synth players... it's really not that impressive that you're hitting one key and holding it to double the tuba section.. don't attract more attention to yourself please!!!)

Wow... i went off on a tangent...

Anyway. The final DVD product is heavily edited from what I understand (including different shot from different nights... not sure I'm a fan of that!!!) but I'm usually satisfied with the final product. They mix and match shots all the time. And they even talk to the corps sometimes I believe if they can't decide on what shot to use.

Now one thing I wish they would release is non-finalist high camera videos. (Or just put non-finalist pre 2008 on fan network already!!!!) but the DVDs are only multi-cam for Vol. II. I'm pretty sure the corps receive them. I know my one tour DVD had Multi-cam and high camera in 09...

[glory]

While generally happy with the video, I would suggest a couple of things.

First, drop the backfield shots. No self-respecting drum corps fan watches a show from the "other" side. So why show the show from an angle we see only on the video? The fact that it's a nice visual shouldn't justify the distraction caused by so radical a shift in the fan's vantage. If you absolutely must, use the backfield shots to show the crowd before and after but never to show the performance. It's not natural.

Second, ditto on the zoom and other such effects. If we're noticing your craft, you're distracting us.

Third, all soloist aren't created equal. This goes for musicians and guard. I realized that someone's mom might hunt you down if her child doesn't get that spotlight moment, but the truth is the solo focus can be contrary to the visual priority. Show us your best shot. This might be one case where mom doesn't know best.

Finally, I absolutely acknowledge the incredible challenge here. Drum corps was never easy to translate to video. Now with so much visual texture and complexity in the programs, the challenge is more difficult than ever. The videos, by and large, are wonderful. If they only would take their cues from my eyeballs and my preferences, they'd be perfect!

HH

[loopin' froot loops]

First, drop the backfield shots. No self-respecting drum corps fan watches a show from the "other" side...

I actually enjoy the backfield shots (when they make sense). Example of when it make sense? The ending moments of a ballad that seams into the closer.

Something about the angle showing the thousands of people in the crowd in a very emotional/musical moment gives me flashbacks to memories I have while marching. I obviously can't envision every stadium I marched in, nevermind exactly where I was on the field at all times, but seeing those backfield shots (in those special moments) fills me with the emotion I felt performing on the field from (sort of, but not exactly), the angle the performers saw.

[hashmarkpainter]

while shooting video for a local university band, the band director told us ONE golden rule......I only want to see close ups IF the band is standing still. IF the band is moving I want to see it all, as wide as your cameras can get.