Kevin Powell Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 27 OH... They are still alive when I do push-ups every night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbass598 Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 I do not think it is an elephant. It is simply an overarching problem that will continue to occur. Step back out of this one year. Take a look at the 1970s. Just go look at the DCI scoreboard and review the names on the finals list. Do the same with the 1980s. You see names like the Kingsmen, Argonne Rebels, Kilties, Des Plaines Vanguard, Muchachos, Bridgemen, Bleu Raeders, Commodores, De La Salle Oaklands, Purple Lancers, Oakland Crusaders, Royal Crusaders, Seneca Optimists, Freelancers, North Star, Guardsmen, Sky Ryders, Suncoast Sound, Orlando Magic, Velvet Knights, Dutch Boy And this is just from the top 12 showing not mentioning the corps outside of that the top 12 group. You can see that this has been a long lasting issue. I guess that is part of my point. in 1996, there were almost as many Div III corps at championships (31) than there were at this years championships in total (36?) Everything has been changing for years, yet nobody has adapted and found a way to make it work. My fear is that we are now at a point of no return and we could be under 20 corps within a couple of years if people don't change the touring structure to allow groups to remain alive and kicking. Everyone is scraping by to exist in touring formula that only a few can successfully maintain without going deeply in debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 They [Crossmen] lucked out that when YEA! decided they could no longer afford to operate two WC corps, the band director from Ronald Reagan HS in Texas took them on and moved them. Otherwise, they would have folded, most likely (IMO). They were actually acquired by a businessman... who is still running the corps, while the band director is no longer involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyRyder_FMM Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I know the Troopers had financial issues and regrouped for sucessful return to the field. I also recall Phantom Regiment having some issues in the late 90's/early 00's and they seemed to recover. How did these corps do it? How can these corps survive each year and not drive themselves into deep debt? Or are there several corps out there that are struggling heavily financially and they aren't telling anyone? Guidestar.org is your friend. You can see all corps financial statements there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbass598 Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Guidestar.org is your friend. You can see all corps financial statements there. I've been a member at guidestar for quite a while. That is part of what substantiates my concerns. Here is a sample of what is available on the most recently posted 990 forms from each corps YEA 2011- Income -4, 405,454 - Expenses 4,158,428 = 247,326 Blue Devils 2010 - Income 3,533,576 - Expenses 4,142,878 = (609,372) - A bit surprising they lost money but they made a considerable amount in 2009 so it washes out. SCV 2010 - Income 3,188,751 - Expenses 2,766,126 = 422,625 Bluecoats 2010 - Income 924,166 - Expenses 958,883 = (34,717) I didn't bother to list them but Carolina Crown and the Cavaliers break even with only about 1,000 difference in income and expenses. Now for the lower tier corps Blue Stars 2010 - Income 921,842 - Expenses 930,671 - (8,829) Boston Crusaders 2010 - Income 798,257 - Expenses 774,770 = 23,487 Blue Knights 2010 - Income 1,118,324 - Expenses 1,184,432 = (66,108) Glassmen 2010 - Income 933,389 - Expenses 1,046,125 - (113,036) Troopers 2011 - Income 928,044 - Expenses 1,004,815 = (78,771) Madison Scouts 2011 - Income 883,608 - Expenses 904,105 = (20,497) Keep in mind this is all public information freely available on Guidestar so I'm not doing this to out anyone's dirty laundry or anything like that. I'm simply concerned for the future of the activity. If these numbers continue for these corps over the course of a few years, there is big trouble coming. If the net assets and/or funds balances of these corps go into the red (and some of these corps are) then their trouble is coming far quicker than the corps who have some balances to keep them going for a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) My question is... Why is everyone living up to or beyond their means? A 501c3 is allowed to save up to 2 years of operating expenses within a reserve fund. All 501c3s are allowed to profit and save up to this ammount. This is also outside of appropriating funds for other projects. One of the largest parts of business is business planning. Not just spending up to your means. ALSO.. by these numbers... Before saying WOW... look at BD - People need to realize that BD fields two corps and live in California (cost of living and extra travel expense). It also reflects the cash spent on winterguard and all their other groups. SAME with SCV. Dont let the numbers reflect show cost. Edited August 21, 2012 by Kevin Powell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Also looking at this. $1,000,000 is aveage operating cost that will bring a corps to the field to compete. This is the number to shoot for and have a plan for to build a competive organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hup234 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 ... to be honest, I'm surprised corps still exist. ... I think number of units will decline over time. What is the activity offering to potential members today? Instructors portray themselves as 'faculty' and members as 'students'. Do kids want to get out of school for three months and get right back into "school"? Corps used to have macho NFL/NBA/sports-sounding names. How many kids want to identify with some of those PC warm/fuzzy monikers that today's units hang on themselves? Speaking of macho, whatever happened to the powerful, confident, aggressive style of marching and music that was Golden Age D&BC that kids wanted to be part of? John Wayne turned into Elton John. Speaking of kids, why has the activity forsaken recruiting/accepting rookies, once the bread-and-butter of D&BC, to favor only pretrained kids? And this after the instructors began thinking of themselves as "teachers"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 The answer is obvious. Only corps with red uniforms are making money. Therefore, all corps must wear red uniforms from now on. Is this what the Blue Knights 2012 show was trying to tell us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Also looking at this. $1,000,000 is aveage operating cost that will bring a corps to the field to compete. This is the number to shoot for and have a plan for to build a competive organization. That is wrong for several reasons. Not all corps (not even all world class corps) tour as much as the ones listed above. For a true average, you need numbers for Mandarins, Jersey Surf, Pioneer, and so on. Some of these 990s include other costs besides just the operating cost of the listed corps. In some cases, the organization is running other youth programs, perhaps even two or three drum corps, or a marching band circuit, or WGI ensembles. Also, one org might include both the full cost and income of fundraising ventures like bingo in the respective categories of their 990, while another org might just list one number for the net profit or loss of the bingo operation in the relevant column of the 990. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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