Stu Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) your employer is paying you for X. You have to do X to get paid. That is why the guy from the Cavaliers had to go to college band camp, because he was getting paid. High school kids are not in the same position at all. It is the 'values system' which is being taught at the HS level; and the kids are being taught that you can do what you want, when you want, where you want, and people are, and will be, willing to compromise with you so that you can pretty much always get what 'you' want. And it is that 'values system' learned by the child which will influence and shape how that person will approach conflicting situations in the adult world of career carrying with them the same expectations they learned at the HS level. So, to me it is far more helpful to the learning of a child to teach them to choose one over the other than to try and wiggle out a series of compromises which allows them to do everything in their hearts desire. Edited August 26, 2012 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) No need to try. Stu's mind is set. Yep; and if I were instructing a Troopers weekend camp (on the days I already have off) I would go back to work as soon as my instruction was done instead of wiggling out an extended day to go fishing. Edited August 26, 2012 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Yep; and if I were instructing a Troopers weekend camp (on the days I already have off) I would go back to work as soon as my instruction was done instead of wiggling out an extended day to go fishing. I'm really happy for you. Save your vacation time for something else. I am sure You've earned it just like I've earned my time off. Before stating what my intent and thoughts ARE. Be sure you read what I wrote. I was clear on the difference between education leave vs. time off from the start. There is a clear difference. Stu's interpretation is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCImonkey Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 I look at it this way. During the Spring when DCI is in "prep" mode and most concert bands are in "performance" mode, DCI camps should ALWAYS take the backseat to band functions and that needs to be worked out with the directors. In the summer when DCI is in "performance" mode and bands are in "prep" mode, DCI should get priority. In NC we have a different problem. School here cannot start before August 25th (27th this year) however it gets out on June 10th. Our kids would miss out on several weeks of Spring Training. It's alot easier to show up late for school in the fall than to leave school early at the end. If you are a no-show after 10 days they take you off the rolls. Your attendance doesn't start until you attend your first day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Depends on the employer, the day job and the career. If it is an extracurricular activity that promotes growth and educates - I would allow it as I am sure others do as well. Sometimes, I will even pay for it, if it is in my best interest and is in direct relation to the job they do daily. If the persons job is maintained and covered during their time off and they can stay up to speed with all the activities in their project plan - Of course I would allow it. If they are not meeting those needs then there might be an issue. Growth of an employee is as important as the job itself. Promoting growth gains a long time dedicated employee that will always do their best at that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgerbob Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 I look at it this way. During the Spring when DCI is in "prep" mode and most concert bands are in "performance" mode, DCI camps should ALWAYS take the backseat to band functions and that needs to be worked out with the directors. In the summer when DCI is in "performance" mode and bands are in "prep" mode, DCI should get priority. In NC we have a different problem. School here cannot start before August 25th (27th this year) however it gets out on June 10th. Our kids would miss out on several weeks of Spring Training. It's alot easier to show up late for school in the fall than to leave school early at the end. If you are a no-show after 10 days they take you off the rolls. Your attendance doesn't start until you attend your first day. This is exactly how it was done here. I missed probably a good half of my winter camps for Troopers (though I was leadership, etc) for things like Allstate, concerts, large rehearsals, tours, etc. I would expect the same the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 It is the 'values system' which is being taught at the HS level; and the kids are being taught that you can do what you want, when you want, where you want, and people are, and will be, willing to compromise with you so that you can pretty much always get what 'you' want. And it is that 'values system' learned by the child which will influence and shape how that person will approach conflicting situations in the adult world of career carrying with them the same expectations they learned at the HS level. So, to me it is far more helpful to the learning of a child to teach them to choose one over the other than to try and wiggle out a series of compromises which allows them to do everything in their hearts desire. sometimes, you can work things out with the other party, sometimes you cannot. Say you work 8 hours per day, and you have 40 hours of work to do each week. But this week, you want to go see a friend / go to a concert / do anything else on Friday. It is possible that you can talk to your employer and see if they are willing to let you make up the time before or after you miss work on that Friday. Perhaps they are willing to let you work 4 10 hour days this week instead of 5 8 hour days. If they aren't willing to compromise, then you have to choose (I guess in this situation the choices would be quit your job or miss the Friday event). But I don't see the harm and seeing if there is a solution that benefits both parties. There is no reason to force a choice to be made if it isn't necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 I'm really happy for you. Save your vacation time for something else. I am sure You've earned it just like I've earned my time off. Before stating what my intent and thoughts ARE. Be sure you read what I wrote. I was clear on the difference between education leave vs. time off from the start. There is a clear difference. Stu's interpretation is wrong. 1) Education leave (seeking a certification or continuing education credits to keep a certification) and personal time off (as in vacation time) are two vastly different issues; 2) Go teach (march) on personal time off; that is fine. But personal time off should never conflict with a strictly scheduled important event at your primary place of employment (or at school) in which your presence is both needed and required; and 3) Last time I checked, Drum Corps does not provide any certified continuing education credits for either university students or career individuals, so it should not qualify as Education leave at all. So, my interpretation is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) sometimes, you can work things out with the other party, sometimes you cannot. Say you work 8 hours per day, and you have 40 hours of work to do each week. But this week, you want to go see a friend / go to a concert / do anything else on Friday. It is possible that you can talk to your employer and see if they are willing to let you make up the time before or after you miss work on that Friday. Perhaps they are willing to let you work 4 10 hour days this week instead of 5 8 hour days. If they aren't willing to compromise, then you have to choose (I guess in this situation the choices would be quit your job or miss the Friday event). But I don't see the harm and seeing if there is a solution that benefits both parties. There is no reason to force a choice to be made if it isn't necessary. We are not talking about compromising on a few hours, or a day here and there, to attend a one-time event. But missing weeks and weeks of work, school, camp, etc... that is not compromise, but a selfish grab at 'I want what I want when I want it' which it appears many school teachers are willing to give over to their youth. Edited August 26, 2012 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) sometimes, you can work things out with the other party, sometimes you cannot. Say you work 8 hours per day, and you have 40 hours of work to do each week. But this week, you want to go see a friend / go to a concert / do anything else on Friday. It is possible that you can talk to your employer and see if they are willing to let you make up the time before or after you miss work on that Friday. Perhaps they are willing to let you work 4 10 hour days this week instead of 5 8 hour days. If they aren't willing to compromise, then you have to choose (I guess in this situation the choices would be quit your job or miss the Friday event). But I don't see the harm and seeing if there is a solution that benefits both parties. There is no reason to force a choice to be made if it isn't necessary. or you can be hard headed and unwilling to compromise which will force the employer to keep you at work - making you a little more bitter. Always being right does not make a person correct. This also ends up creating a situation where the employer may evaluate your team skills, dedication and abilities. I guess that is a personal decision. Edited August 26, 2012 by Kevin Powell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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