c mor Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 To answer the OP. You are about a week ahead of us. We would have the same issue. I'm not sure I would let a high school student march full tour, but that is me. Depends on the band program, the kid and if the kid likes PB&Js. Thanks to all y'all for the discussion. It seems clear that high schools are starting earlier - maybe eventually moving to year-round school. Not quite sure how hs students will be able to march then, but we'll see how things go. And Kev...nice comedic call back to the pb&j...made me laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWNphantomfan Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Our county started school Aug 1st...with band camp activity as early as July 9th. There is no way a high school student could march in a corps. Is it the same in your area? What I'm upset about is that in my area, summer doesn't start till June 1st, and it doesn't end till August 27th, so I won't get to march phantom till I'm in college:((( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13strokeroll Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 This dream world is not as far away as you think. It just depends on the company. It is a great policy and it is actually proven to make people more productive. I have folks that take time to go to school and seminars and training all the time and they/we never miss a deadline. They also know that if the policy is abused - they'll be on the street. Pretty simple. The self entitled stuff that was mentioned would never happen to that extreme. I've never seen it happen. A fry cook at Burger King maybe or maybe a bag boy at your grocery store. Pregnancy Leave, is that the self entitlement that was mentioned? I see it happen every day. Contractual absences to play softball. Uninvestigable FMLA leaves immediate proceeding a declined vacation request, . . . The list goes on and on. How productive is that? As an Ivy league educated HR person, I'd like to see your data to substantiate this claim. Particularly because every study I've seen is that these programs are rife with abuse and actually prove to be cost ineffective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13strokeroll Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Personally I wouldn't go to that extreme (that was my interpretation of Stu's viewpoint.) Like I said though: I have noticed my students not understanding that the world is not always accommodating to their every whim. Is that because of dci? Heck no- none of them march (yet). My guess is its a product of how our world and culture has changed. We are so accommodating to very thing that when something logistically can't work, some people just flat out don't know what to do. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 gettin all serious... gotta get a pb&j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 I see it happen every day. Contractual absences to play softball. Uninvestigable FMLA leaves immediate proceeding a declined vacation request, . . . The list goes on and on. How productive is that? As an Ivy league educated HR person, I'd like to see your data to substantiate this claim. Particularly because every study I've seen is that these programs are rife with abuse and actually prove to be cost ineffective. I'll send you what I have when I get to the office. I understand the abuse part and do not dispute that it happens. I also know that I would not let the abuse happen. If a manager lets one person get away with a Softball absence, they might as well start a softball team. That is also different than the leave I would allow. I was clear in educational intent and/or growing their job skill set. Vacation time is for softball games. FMLA is different (medical leave to catch everyone up) and is abused, probably even more as a government supported abuse program. It is like crack for addicts and something does need to be done about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 What I get out of this thread is: If you're gonna go thru life as a self-centered jerk, you're setting youself up for problems. On the other hand, if your journey through life is one of kindness and humility and hard work, you'll probably make some friends, respect yourself, and have others respect you. Oh, there will be haters. There are always haters (mostly they're the ones who have screwed up their own lives and like to blame everything on others, I bet you know them). But, in the end, you have to answer up to the person you see when you look in the mirror. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Powell Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 I understand the abuse part and do not dispute that it happens. I also know that I would not let the abuse happen. If a manager lets one person get away with a Softball absence, they might as well start a softball team. That is also different than the leave I would allow. I was clear in educational intent and/or growing their job skill set. Vacation time is for softball games. I have to clarify this... MY TEAMS would not allow the abuse to happen. In the "agile" work environment that I work in, team members depend on the other team members to get a job done. They also support one another. If someone is out due to learning a new skillset, that new skill wil be brought back to the scrum team making the team stronger. They cover each other when needed. If there is one person that is not pulling their weight due to "ex :softball" the entire team suffers and will resolve the issue. If a kid is out of band camp for corps, hopefully that kid brings home a new skillset for the band. Making the band better. There is a difference in being out of work to go fishing compared to being out to learn best practices for modern user experience models. I hope that was clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesleyrp Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Great post Kevin... Those kids that come back do bring a different skill set that works great to use as an example:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) ... If a manager lets one person get away with a Softball absence, they might as well start a softball team. That is also different than the leave I would allow. I was clear in educational intent and/or growing their job skill set. Vacation time is for softball games.... I have to clarify this... MY TEAMS would not allow the abuse to happen. In the "agile" work environment that I work in, team members depend on the other team members to get a job done. They also support one another. If someone is out due to learning a new skillset, that new skill wil be brought back to the scrum team making the team stronger. They cover each other when needed. If there is one person that is not pulling their weight due to "ex :softball" the entire team suffers and will resolve the issue. If a kid is out of band camp for corps, hopefully that kid brings home a new skillset for the band. Making the band better. There is a difference in being out of work to go fishing compared to being out to learn best practices for modern user experience models. I hope that was clear. Softball teaches skill sets like dependence on teamwork, winning strategy, competitive tactics, self-discipline, tenacity, and enhances both mental and physical health; skill sets and health issues which will certainly be brought back to the scrum team making the team stronger. Moreover, I can justify any activity,I mean 'any' activity which would develop or hone skill sets to benefit your company (for example fishing teaches patience as a skill which would benefit your company); so if you let a person out of work to hone skill sets to honk a horn, bang a drum, or wave a flag, and not let me out of work to acquire the stated skill sets from Softball which will benefit your company, I will grab an attorney and sue your butt along with the company. welcome to the new age of corporate life! I would march Troopers just to extend my weekend camps to go fly fishing. And I just pulled this from the "Local" thread to show that whether or not it is a tinge of humor: a) Even you would try to figure out a way to abuse your own "leave of absence from work for educational reasons" policy; and b) You use arguing for both sides as a tool which keeps us from knowing where you exactly stand on various positions. Edited August 26, 2012 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.