Michael Boo Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Please take this seriously. Another thread caused me to think of a question. At what point would a marching show design go too far: Swastika/Hitler, Confederate Flag/Nooses,... or is it 'all' ok in the name of artistic expression within the marching activity? Good question, but I think designers are aware of community standards. You ask about swastikas. Such a design was used by Mel Brooks to induce groans and laughter in "The Producers." Out of that context, I think the same effect in a show based on "The Producers" would elicit a troubling reaction. I can easily see a zombie apocalypse show going too far due to graphic reasons. And I would bitterly protest a show based on the music of Justin Beiber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 There is no such point if the activity is allowed to express what is important to society. In my opinion, I don't think that drum corps have even begun to go too far. Creativity and communication should be free to find expression in any genre. IMO, I feel that many drum corps play the game and inhibit their true possibilities and abilities. Since you contend drum corps have not even begun to go too far it begs this question for you answer: Is there a too far for you, and if so where would you draw the line? I mean I can conjure up some very disturbing images which would even make Caligula sick at his stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I agree with all of the above statement as it applies to open discourse; suppression of discussing the tragic events of history should not happen in a free society. However, the question within this thread is this: Is a marching band / drum corps show really the best venue to delve so deeply into that discourse? I consider art to be a part of open discourse. If we aren't teaching students that side or art, are we really giving them a musical education? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 Good question, but I think designers are aware of community standards. Really? You mean that the Bluecoats did not push the limits of community standards with their first few Creep shows having a curse word over the amp system? Or the Boston show Taking a Bite out of the Apple did not push the community standards of sexual innuendo? You ask about swastikas. Such a design was used by Mel Brooks to induce groans and laughter in "The Producers." Out of that context, I think the same effect in a show based on "The Producers" would elicit a troubling reaction. I can easily see a zombie apocalypse show going too far due to graphic reasons. Hollywood movies utilize adult professionals and many movies are rated R to XXX; some movies use discretion and taste and others really push the limits. Are you saying that youth drum corps aka DCI needs to follow that precept? And I would bitterly protest a show based on the music of Justin Beiber. I started to counter that I asked this thread to be serious, but then realized that this comment of yours actually is serious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 I consider art to be a part of open discourse. If we aren't teaching students that side or art, are we really giving them a musical education? So if we are not teaching students porn (which is art) and not designing shows based on that porn (again art) we are not giving them a proper full musical education? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Well, Pacific Crest had a swastika at the start of their show in 2010, but I assume that was more of a mistake than an intentional thing. If we're not actually teaching kids about what has really happened in art and history, then it's our fault. Art and History hasn't always been happy and sunny, as much as people try and edit it that way. There was some awful stuff that has occurred, and if we don't teach children about it, then we've failed as educators. Isn't the quote, "those who refuse to accept the ills of their past are doomed to repeat them?" Seems pretty applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 So if we are not teaching students porn (which is art) and not designing shows based on that porn (again art) we are not giving them a proper full musical education? You're smarter than that. Nobody said anything about crossing over between art forms (if you consider pornography to be art). Nice try though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 You're smarter than that. Nobody said anything about crossing over between art forms (if you consider pornography to be art). Nice try though. Oh contraire. Movies and Music are by definition Art forms; Movie concepts as well as Movie Music have certainly been done by many marching ensembles in both high school and drum corps. Porn Movies and Porn Music, by definition, would therefore be considered Art; and using those Porn Movies and Porn Music concepts in marching ensembles would just be an extension of what has already been occurring in the marching activity. The only reason not to do this type of marching show would be the objection to using those particular movies (art) and those particular musical charts (again art). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) Really? You mean that the Bluecoats did not push the limits of community standards with their first few Creep shows having a curse word over the amp system? Or the Boston show Taking a Bite out of the Apple did not push the community standards of sexual innuendo? Hollywood movies utilize adult professionals and many movies are rated R to XXX; some movies use discretion and taste and others really push the limits. Are you saying that youth drum corps aka DCI needs to follow that precept? I started to counter that I asked this thread to be serious, but then realized that this comment of yours actually is serious! I was never aware of any curse words in Bluecoats' "Brave New World," nor do I remember that being a topic on here...but I was in China in 2011 until June 23 and brain dead for an additional couple of days. What does anyone remember about that? Was it really obvious? Did some just think they heard such a word. If there, did removing it create a gap that had to be filled in? As for Boston's "Core of Temptation," I never understood what the fuss was about. But by then, five and six months before my cataract surgery, my vision was 20/400 with glasses and there were a lot of things I couldn't discern from a distance. (I didn't know it was as bad as it was because it was so gradual.) I've seen photos of the guard costumes and realized I missed the full impact of them, but was that the sexual innuendo to which you are referring. (I haven't seen the show on DVD yet.) I'm not suggesting any such precept for DCI corps. but I think certain shows would make me uncomfortable, whether I should be uncomfortable or not. And based on what I've heard from Justin Beiber, (and this just applies to my personal reaction), I would wretch if his music was put on the field. And I don't mean "wretch" in a good way, if there is any. I don't need to ingest that much sugar...I still have my own teeth and I plan to keep them. PS: So yes...you are correct that I was being serious about the Bieber show. Edited September 27, 2012 by Michael Boo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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