craiga Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) After being involved for over 30 years in this activity, I don't share the view that it is either/or. I can think of several visual designers who won multiple rings with one team, then went to another and struggled just trying to make finals....so that suggests talent more than staff. Then I think of the above mentioned PR example, with the virtually the same design team and even more talent coming in 9th in 09 after winning it all in 08. In 2008, BAC placed 10th and PR placed first, and 12 months later, it was BAC in 7th and PR in 9th. Does anyone think that after coming off a Ring-winning year that PR would have had less talent than 10th place Boston going into 2009? As I look at 2012, I again doubt that Cavies had less talent than Boston or Madison, so why were these three so tight? And, you can't really blame just the drill guy if you saw the Cavies. As for the OP's original premise: You left one thing out....IF BD's vaunted staff and design team went to the Crossmen, would their $5.1 million budget and two feeder corps follow them over there as well? Because these things also matter..... Also, I have it on good authority that the folks who teach the Crossmen teach those kids how to march and play....when do you suppose was the last time that BD's staff had to teach a kid how to hold a mellophone? I'm not playing down their achievements as a staff....but I still recall a BD staffer attending a BAC winter camp in 1990 (when BAC was in the 13th-15 range) and saying to me-incredulously-you guys are actually teaching these kids how to march??!! The final point...and this one is going to have some folks launch on me...is my long held belief that IF the Crossmen played and marched 2012 BD's show note for note and step for step with identical achievement levels as BD, the Crossmen would not have won DCI. Poetic license ALSO matters. Enjoy your Saturday, everyone! Edited October 20, 2012 by craiga 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I'm sorry Crossmen and Texas. I'll never get used to that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bari Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I thought the rule was 80/20... No if it was 80/20 the there would be no one called a 5%er! I am sure you have heard of them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) Staff and program wins. Easy to deliver that platitude, GeneralT. But as Casey Stengel (a pretty successful instructor/coordinator in his particular performance arena) observed, "ya gotta have the horses." Realistically speaking, ya gotta have both, I think. peace, Fred O. Edited October 22, 2012 by drumno5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Knob Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The same question could be asked about Florida. Staff and kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAW Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 After being involved for over 30 years in this activity, I don't share the view that it is either/or. I can think of several visual designers who won multiple rings with one team, then went to another and struggled just trying to make finals....so that suggests talent more than staff. Then I think of the above mentioned PR example, with the virtually the same design team and even more talent coming in 9th in 09 after winning it all in 08. In 2008, BAC placed 10th and PR placed first, and 12 months later, it was BAC in 7th and PR in 9th. Does anyone think that after coming off a Ring-winning year that PR would have had less talent than 10th place Boston going into 2009? As I look at 2012, I again doubt that Cavies had less talent than Boston or Madison, so why were these three so tight? And, you can't really blame just the drill guy if you saw the Cavies. As for the OP's original premise: You left one thing out....IF BD's vaunted staff and design team went to the Crossmen, would their $5.1 million budget and two feeder corps follow them over there as well? Because these things also matter..... Also, I have it on good authority that the folks who teach the Crossmen teach those kids how to march and play....when do you suppose was the last time that BD's staff had to teach a kid how to hold a mellophone? I'm not playing down their achievements as a staff....but I still recall a BD staffer attending a BAC winter camp in 1990 (when BAC was in the 13th-15 range) and saying to me-incredulously-you guys are actually teaching these kids how to march??!! The final point...and this one is going to have some folks launch on me...is my long held belief that IF the Crossmen played and marched 2012 BD's show note for note and step for step with identical achievement levels as BD, the Crossmen would not have won DCI. Poetic license ALSO matters. Enjoy your Saturday, everyone! I'll launch...that you are absolutely correct. Maybe two corps could have won with that show. Most others would have been...we'll they just wouldn't have done as well. That's as nice as I can put it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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