Will The G7 Split From DCI?

[UNCGQ]

Broken Arrow:

Do I need to repeat this for all the bands you listed? By "Exist" I meant from the perspective of those funding it; the school board. From the perspective of the band leaders, members, and parents, the purpose is the same as DCI. Excellence in performing arts. I did not mean to touch a nerve, and I'm sorry if I have.

You can repeat this exercise for all of the bands listed . . . how much of the total operating budget of the 'marching band' is paid via school board funds versus other means (booster org, student fees, etc.)?

You mean to tell me that if polled, the school board representing Broken Arrow would say they're a lot more proud of the band's presence at football games than winning a title at Grand Nats? Would they be okay with a band like that missing a football game, missing that great riling up of the football fans, if the band traveled to an away competition such as, I dunno, Grand Nationals?

What groups like LD Bell and the like do is a lot more at home on a stage than it is on a football field on a Friday night at halftime. Its surreal to see it at a HS football game.

I know there's a sacred purity of absolutely anything with the name DCI attached to it and anybody who mentions 'band' here can go jump off a bridge so its as futile a process as debating politics.

"If you go to Grand Nationals you're a kid on a school trip. If you're in a drum corps you're pretty much a grown up, and will be treated pretty much the same as if you were a paid employee."

That's such a disparaging, over-generalized comment. Having been around a huge sampling of both groups of people, I know plenty of aged-out vets I wouldn't trust to watch my cat and plenty of 'kids on a school trip' I'd trust with my life.

If it weren't for the sizable budgets of many of the HS programs around the country, many of the rock star staffs of DCI corps would be homeless. They don't make a living by being the 'X Caption Head/Drill Writer/Music Arranger' for a Top 12 corps.

That great Crown brass sound? Matt Harloff is their Brass Caption Head. What does he do as a real job? Asst. Director at Avon. The list is endless.

[UNCGQ]

Just a bump in hopes that someone will answer this question:

Because if you can have one corps that's profitable, then you can have multiple corps that are profitable, and the larger you can scale your organization, the more efficient it can become.

Do you think there's a Cadets² because Hop wants to better train future Cadets??? Riiiiight.

[Fran Haring]

I'm thinking the G-7 corps would like to go to a place I've envisioned for years. A different place, but one that will likely work. A new place not encumbered by league rules of any sort. Not static, not limited in concern for the needs of others. Someplace more like rock concerts. The hottest rock concerts are those that break new ground, introduce things for the first time, become the most expensive, outrageous spectacles that anyone is talking about. Who will be this year's Lady Gaga?

If you have it, can afford it. . . . just do it !

To me, persons of like (G-7) mind will soon experiment with big-time ARENA DRUM CORPS. Really, that's all that will ever satisfy the creative mind. An environment where anything can work. No limits by weather, on electronics, special effects, pyrotechnics, expensive props, delicate uniforms, etc. nor having to move from place to place to pick-up a single share of one gate receipt. I see an expanded BLAST! production emerging that includes 3-5 diverse groups per afternoon/evening. Each trying to "out-WOW" the other.

You know, I'd pay for that. Let it rip!

(just don't destroy the activity you left behind)

And don't rely on what you left behind as a "safety net" to return to in case the idea doesn't work. Star certainly didn't when they broke away. Theirs was a clean departure, with a plan, on to other things....a tribute to Bill Cook's business acumen. The man did not become a billionaire by not thinking things through.

I'm with you on this, Fred.... if a corps, or several corps, decide to break away and do their own thing, God bless 'em and I hope it works out for them.

But if it doesn't work, then hey... as the saying goes... ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances.

[garfield]

garfield,

When individuals make careers, and receive decent salaries for managing something, it's necessary to EXPAND that something. Exposing all one's eggs in a single basket is more risky than owning several baskets.

Fred, I hate to burst your bubble, but this is flawed thinking. What you're describing is related to diversification, as if having more than one corps is an example. Wrong.

Diversification requires that assets (revenue sources for a corps organization) be non-correlated. That is, their values (incomes, in this case) are unrelated to one another and act in completely unrelated patterns. In statistics (and investing) R-squared is used to describe correlation.

If it were provable that adding a second drum corps is accretive to revenue, you might have a limited case of scale. But, it's not shown that having a "B" corps is at all accretive to revenue; in fact, as you'll see shortly in the discussion of BD in the 990 thread, that second organization is a drain on BD's resources - it is not self-sufficient let alone accretive to revenue. And, further, those revenue streams are highly correlated to each other. In fact, there's a case to be made that the B-corps is highly dependent on the A-corps for its survival. Those are hardly non-correlated revenue streams.

So, there must be another answer as to why a corps would have a B-corps (or C, D, or E, for that matter) because it's not financially justifiable in and of itself.

Edited November 22, 2012 by garfield

[garfield]

Because if you can have one corps that's profitable, then you can have multiple corps that are profitable, and the larger you can scale your organization, the more efficient it can become.

Do you think there's a Cadets² because Hop wants to better train future Cadets??? Riiiiight.

This presumes that drum corps are profitable. The data from the corps 990's suggest otherwise.

What do you have if you have an A-corps and a B-corps that are both unprofitable with no outside source of revenue to support them?

There's another reason why there are formal feeder programs. I contend it's to train their incoming students to the life of corps. To make them "fit", in all regards, to tour with a world champion unit.

Which takes me back to my original premise: The contention is that HS bands were a better training ground for corps members than were the "crap" corps that deserved to fail.

Apparently those HS programs do not train potential MM's sufficiently enough for BD or SCV or others running feeder programs.

And if a WC corps cannot afford to run a feeder program, the lower-placing corps are a better incubator for potential MM's than most HS programs.

Earlier in this thread there were listed a half-dozen or so exceptional HS programs. Well, is the entire drum corps community supposed to tap those 6 (or 12 or 24) great HS programs for their marching members? Are those high-performing students ready to march BD, Crown, or Cadets, or even Troopers? Surf? No, those corps train great HS players what life in drum corps is like (it ain't marching band!).

Which is why the "feeder" programs that make up the 12 -30 spots need to be supported.

[Fred Windish]

In a perfect world, garfield, you are correct. Being more the cynic, I place greater weight on an individual's sense of self-preservation. Particularly in an ego-driven endeavor like this. One adds more reach, more self-importance, whenever one can (mostly to preserve). Expanding for whatever shared spoils might come. Consider unprepared corps undertaking expensive national tours. The math doesn't have to make sense, long term. I could cite national leaders here, but I won't. That could lead to this post being removed.

Edited November 22, 2012 by Fred Windish

[OrlandoContraAlum]

It was more a commentary on WGI and how much better they are integrated with the scholastic world.... would be a much more seamless transition for kids.

Ah. It didn't come across that way, at least to me. Carry on then.

[Pete Freedman]

So, there must be another answer as to why a corps would have a B-corps (or C, D, or E, for that matter) because it's not financially justifiable in and of itself.

I suspect it's to meet the need for (maybe mostly local?) kids who are either too young or lack the performance level needed to be in the A corps. It may not make sense financially, but if you're David Gibbs and you see a steady stream of parents asking if their 13 year old can be in the Blue Devils, it makes you want to find a solution. I think I agree with the poster who said that the G7 isn't about selfishness on the part of the G7 directors; they are dedicated to their mission. Apparently they are willing to dedicate some of their resources to create something that benefits even more kids. I have to respect that. More kids living the dream = better.

[soccerguy315]

Why should they even care? A person wants to audition for corps 'X' because they like what they see. The rest is irrelevant to them.

BTW...If they don't know about "it", how would they know to look for "it"?

it's the same as how people vote... all the information you could want is out there. Most people don't care and then get surprised when things happen that people that were paying attention knew would obviously happen.

[Pete Freedman]

You can repeat this exercise for all of the bands listed . . . how much of the total operating budget of the 'marching band' is paid via school board funds versus other means (booster org, student fees, etc.)?

You mean to tell me that if polled, the school board representing Broken Arrow would say they're a lot more proud of the band's presence at football games than winning a title at Grand Nats? Would they be okay with a band like that missing a football game, missing that great riling up of the football fans, if the band traveled to an away competition such as, I dunno, Grand Nationals?

Well, now, wait a minute. You successfully baited me into comparing the top acts in marching band to the non-G7 in drum corps. But my point from the beginning has been that it is a choice between the actual one average marching band a given kid has down the hall, (and the one instructor who is typically responsible for teaching all the instruments), versus trying out for your choice of touring drum corps. And, of course, they are already doing the band thing; the drum corps is a summer activity that covers a critical gap that the serious student wants to cover.

What groups like LD Bell and the like do ...

... doesn't matter. It's not an option.

I know there's a sacred purity of absolutely anything with the name DCI attached to it and anybody who mentions 'band' here can go jump off a bridge so its as futile a process as debating politics.

I agree there is much elitism, and I'm sometimes guilty of it. I'm sorry.

"If you go to Grand Nationals you're a kid on a school trip. If you're in a drum corps you're pretty much a grown up, and will be treated pretty much the same as if you were a paid employee."

That's such a disparaging, over-generalized comment. Having been around a huge sampling of both groups of people, I know plenty of aged-out vets I wouldn't trust to watch my cat and plenty of 'kids on a school trip' I'd trust with my life.

Of course you're right, but I'm not saying all drum corps kids are in some way better than all marching band kids. I'm just saying that on average (not Broken Arrow, but Monroe-Woodbury Crusaders) the touring drum corps experience provides an extremely valuable experience, in part because remember, it's in addition to marching band.

If it weren't for the sizable budgets of many of the HS programs around the country, many of the rock star staffs of DCI corps would be homeless. They don't make a living by being the 'X Caption Head/Drill Writer/Music Arranger' for a Top 12 corps.

True, but a side point. And, the fact that you call them "rock star staffs", even if you mean that sarcastically, still illustrates my point. DCI is considered the elite marching art.

That great Crown brass sound? Matt Harloff is their Brass Caption Head. What does he do as a real job? Asst. Director at Avon. The list is endless.

Sure, but the more stable source of funding has no relation to whether DCI offers kids something special and irreplaceable during the summer. It does.