Jeff Ream Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I agree, and if nothing else I think that if someone is looking to expand DCI's popularity OUTSIDE the natural fan base (family, friends, alumni, bandos), they should reevaluate the current situation. I think that DCI/drum corps still has a ways to go in expanding their natural fan base. Expanding the fan base outside of the already established fan base would imply (to me) that one is satisfied with the current state of the fan base. Once we have consistent high attendance to Championships and Regional shows, once we have consistently high revenue on merchandising, THEN we can try to expand to the mainstream, non-natural fan base. But we're not there yet: I'd maybe argue we're not anywhere close to being there yet. correct. However, the DCI game plan, set forth by many of these G7 guys back in the 90s has never been to look internally and see what is and isnt working, but instead to push for change and more change in the hopes it will make it all better. And yet they continue to follow the same mantra, fiddling away while the village burns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Do you think that's the impetus for this entire thing? Do you think it's a matter of corps' spending/budgets continuing to balloon while revenue is fairly consistently below corps' budgets? I suspect that is one fairly big part of it, but I think it might be more than that. Blue Devils certainly have other means of making money on the side (they're BY FAR the best business-esque organization in DCI, and I don't think money is necessarily the driving factor for them, at least). cash is part of it...read the proposal...it stacked the income to benefit them by and large. the other part was power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I've come to a softer stance over progressions like these. Things DO change, I don't like change, but so have I changed. When you step back, you might also see such changes as natural developments. Changes brought on by those who are "at the controls" now. I have been heavily criticized for keeping an open mind throughout this discussion. I honestly DO think this will, and should, lead to a stage much different than a football field. I stand ready to (in time) sample that, then move on. Direction unknown. What can be more natural than that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I've come to a softer stance over progressions like these. Things DO change, I don't like change, but so have I changed. When you step back, you might also see such changes as natural developments. Changes brought on by those who are "at the controls" now. I have been heavily criticized for keeping an open mind throughout this discussion. I honestly DO think this will, and should, lead to a stage much different than a football field. I stand ready to (in time) sample that, then move on. Direction unknown. What can be more natural than that? I'm not sure Fred, because I don't really see anyone involved with these groups with the ability to take it off the field Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I've come to a softer stance over progressions like these. Things DO change, I don't like change, but so have I changed. When you step back, you might also see such changes as natural developments. Changes brought on by those who are "at the controls" now. I have been heavily criticized for keeping an open mind throughout this discussion. I honestly DO think this will, and should, lead to a stage much different than a football field. I stand ready to (in time) sample that, then move on. Direction unknown. What can be more natural than that? Things don't change on their own; people change them. The word "natural" is being thrown around a lot here lately for changes that are the result of decisions. It seems to me this is a way to prevent anyone for being blamed for their decisions, as in, "Oh, nobody decided to make that change: it just happened." But the G-7 directors (and all the directors) have agency. And your "open mind" (which certainly hasn't been "heavily criticized" here) has been in the form of a repeated statement that you expect the G-7 to move to a new arena format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Interesting that a topic asking "What is your vision of the future"? receives so many "Sorry, your vision is not what needs to be heard." responses. But. . . . ..it's natural for folks to decide how to respond in whatever manner works for them, so I'm OK. Also, much communication takes place outside of this forum, as it should. Carry on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I've come to a softer stance over progressions like these. Things DO change, I don't like change, but so have I changed. When you step back, you might also see such changes as natural developments. Changes brought on by those who are "at the controls" now. I have been heavily criticized for keeping an open mind throughout this discussion. I honestly DO think this will, and should, lead to a stage much different than a football field. I stand ready to (in time) sample that, then move on. Direction unknown. What can be more natural than that? Change is a process; nothing stays the same; even on a micro level things change every billionth of a second. The thing is that there is 'natural' change (cells in the body get older) and 'forced' change (I paint an interior wall in my house *because that is what my wife wants). And the changes within drum corps are not 'natural' changes but 'forced'. I am curious as to why you think 'forced' change needs to occur within DCI; not just 'painting the wall' type change but to a point the changes will morph the entire activity into something completely different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Not wanting to get too deep, but the IMPETUS that wants to take us somewhere new is the natural part. We can share different opinions about where that ultimately leads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 Change is a process; nothing stays the same; even on a micro level things change every billionth of a second. The thing is that there is 'natural' change (cells in the body get older) and 'forced' change (I paint an interior wall in my house *because that is what my wife wants). And the changes within drum corps are not 'natural' changes but 'forced'. I am curious as to why you think 'forced' change needs to occur within DCI; not just 'painting the wall' type change but to a point the changes will morph the entire activity into something completely different? You're attempting to create a completely artificial distinction. Which condenses to: Things I think should happen = natural. Things I don't want to happen = forced. Perhaps you were going for rapid change vs. gradual change? (In which case I'll bring up punctuated equilibrium). I disagree that the activity has been morphed into something completely different. Both the end product (kids running around a football field while playing music and spinning equipment) and the member experience (kids working incredibly hard to perfect their show) remains very much the same. In fact IMO both those aspects have been vastly improved. Kid's don't ride around in death trap vehicles, they actually get nutritious food, and the end product is absolutely amazing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 You're attempting to create a completely artificial distinction. Which condenses to: Things I think should happen = natural. Things I don't want to happen = forced. Perhaps you were going for rapid change vs. gradual change? (In which case I'll bring up punctuated equilibrium). I disagree that the activity has been morphed into something completely different. Both the end product (kids running around a football field while playing music and spinning equipment) and the member experience (kids working incredibly hard to perfect their show) remains very much the same. In fact IMO both those aspects have been vastly improved. Kid's don't ride around in death trap vehicles, they actually get nutritious food, and the end product is absolutely amazing. You are misunderstanding the use of the word 'force'. Anything that is changed by a process of nature (for example photosynthesis) is a 'natural' change; however anything changed by the will and action of a person (for example an instrument rule change in DCI) is a forced change; meaning that it did not happen 'naturally' but happened through the will/actions of a human in order to purposely (force) change upon something. Therefore, nothing that changes with the rules and regulations in DCi is a 'natural' change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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