If you had the ability to change one rule in DCI

[cixelsyd]

No it's not misleading at all.

Drum corps weren't strictly limited to locals but they were (with the exception of the nationally touring corps) almost exclusively local. Having an organization that is theoretically open to members across the entire country but whose membership was entirely within 10 miles of a town center is a distinction without a difference.

And when were corps memberships limited to a 10 mile radius?

Not sure why you're repeating a point I already made. CMBs are mostly available to students at a particular school (although there are exceptions they are probably rare).

But those particular schools are only 20% to 25% of US high schools. (And in Canada, 0%.)

But the important point is this:

CMBs make participating in the marching arts available to a FAR LARGER base population than drum corps. Even in it's heyday, unless you were somehow affiliated with a VFW, AL, or other sponsoring org, many (most?) kids were simply unaware of drum corps. And it was highly regionalized with the bulk of these located in specific areas of the country. For example, at it's peak, how many drum corps in Texas? Now let's compare that number to CMBs in Texas. How many students in those school districts are at least aware of the CMB? It dwarfs drum corps at it's peak.

Not even going to mention the educational aspect. Most drum corps weren't not providing at ... erhmm .. 'rigorous' musical education.

I'm not unaware of the positive aspects unique to community drum corps. Many local corps were reaching urban youth who are often left behind by CMBs and certainly left behind by $3000/season fees.

But CMB has indeed supplanted (and in most aspects surpassed) local drum corps back in the day. Are they identical? No. But far more students participate (and far far more students are at least aware of ) the marching arts.

That is a fine testimonial for marching band. But why do you (and several others) feel it is necessary, or even germane to this conversation? I am not here to dispute whether marching bands are worthwhile programs, or that they are widespread. I already know these things.

Marching band, however, is not a like-for-like replacement for drum corps. It is in some ways, but not in others. Thank you for kind of sort of admitting that.

[corpsband]

And when were corps memberships limited to a 10 mile radius?

And where did I say anything about limits? Please read what I wrote.

But those particular schools are only 20% to 25% of US high schools. (And in Canada, 0%.)

And your point is? Far more kids have the opportunity to march today than in the days of locals corps.

That is a fine testimonial for marching band. But why do you (and several others) feel it is necessary, or even germane to this conversation? I am not here to dispute whether marching bands are worthwhile programs, or that they are widespread. I already know these things.

Marching band, however, is not a like-for-like replacement for drum corps. It is in some ways, but not in others. Thank you for kind of sort of admitting that.

You're welcome. No one here has said that MB and drum corps are completely identical. What has been said is that MBs have filled the gap left by the disappearance of all those local drum corps. You can replace a Honda with a Toyota. They're not identical but they're both still largely the same thing and serve largely the same purpose.

Edited December 13, 2012 by corpsband

[MikeD]

What did you actually disagree with? You start your post with "Oh, I disagree" - but then say nothing that contradicts any of what I said.

This...",,,but not all the areas that drum corps used to cover. "

[MikeD]

And when were corps memberships limited to a 10 mile radius?

Legally limited? No...but in my local corps days that was a realistic limitation.

Back in the late 60's long distance travel just was not as common as it is today.

But those particular schools are only 20% to 25% of US high schools. (And in Canada, 0%.)

Which serves far more members than drum corps ever dreamed, when there were only enough corps to equal 2% to 3% of the HS's around the country.

That is a fine testimonial for marching band. But why do you (and several others) feel it is necessary, or even germane to this conversation? I am not here to dispute whether marching bands are worthwhile programs, or that they are widespread. I already know these things.

Marching band, however, is not a like-for-like replacement for drum corps. It is in some ways, but not in others. Thank you for kind of sort of admitting that.

It is a replacement that has far outstripped the old local corps scene is the point.,

[JamMan]

No more letting the uniform touch the ground.

[cixelsyd]

This...",,,but not all the areas that drum corps used to cover. "

Okay, how about where you marched? Back then, kids from Garfield, NJ, had their own drum corps (two at one point). What are the options for a kid from Garfield, NJ, today? Their high school does not have a competing marching band. MB cannot replace DC for the kids of Garfield, NJ.

[cixelsyd]

This contention that competitive marching band hasn't substituted in some important way for drum corps seems silly. It's like claiming cars didn't substitute for horses and buggies a hundred years ago. Of course they did.

The Amish would disagree with you there. But for the rest of us, sure. Over time, cars became sufficiently affordable, and their fuel became widely available, so that pretty much everyone had access to a car.

Not everyone has access to membership in a competitive HS marching band. Not even close. Not even a majority of HS students. Never mind college aged kids. So MB is only a partial substitute for DC - like you go on to say here:

Marching band isn't drum corps. But it has over the past 30 years provided some marchers with an experience that in some aspects substitutes for the drum corps experience. That's only logical. All that should left to dispute is degree.

[MikeD]

Okay, how about where you marched? Back then, kids from Garfield, NJ, had their own drum corps (two at one point). What are the options for a kid from Garfield, NJ, today? Their high school does not have a competing marching band. MB cannot replace DC for the kids of Garfield, NJ.

If you reduce your geography to the finest level, yes, you'll find kids who are not in a district with a competitive MB, but used to have a drum corps. Those kids do have access to drum corps relatively nearby, however, if they want to mach competitively. The Raiders and Surf in DCI, plus the Cabs, Fusion Core, Bushwackers and Windsor Regiment in DCA are all in NJ (the last two being an hour or so drive, though).

What I had said in an earlier post is this:

Was it a one-for-one 'replacement'? No...that is being far to pedantic. On a nation-wide level the concept holds true, and the number of competitive bands far outstrips the number of competitive corps that ever existed at one time across the US.

FAR more kids had no access to competitive marching/music back when there were 440 than have access to competitive MB (4000+) and drum corps today...that is the point of all this.

[scottgordon]

CMB may be a suitable replacement for drumcorps as far as the members' experience is concerned, but I don't think it is a remotely equivalent substitute for fans. It would be like saying that high school jazz bands have filled the gap left by the ending of the big band era.

[MikeD]

CMB may be a suitable replacement for drumcorps as far as the members' experience is concerned, but I don't think it is a remotely equivalent substitute for fans. It would be like saying that high school jazz bands have filled the gap left by the ending of the big band era.

Well, if you look at the 440 field corps, the top level corps, roughly equal to the top level big bands, are about the same numbers as ever. The "replacement" concept is in regards to the hundreds of local level corps that existed back in the day....Garden State Circuit corps, etc.