fsubone Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 How many Football and Basketball players as well as Sprinters walk on their tip-toes like Ballet performer? Is the Ballet just a series of 'silly' walks? Have you watched sprinters run? Many of them run toe-down, since it allows the body to use the entire leg as a shock absorber, and smooth out the motion than trying to sprint landing on the heel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudHype Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 I'll start to believe that there's any real physiological advantage to straight leg when I start see football players, basketball players, or sprinters running with straight legs. Until then, it's just a product of the Drum Corps Ministry of Silly Walks. YMMV, of course. Kind of like rolling on to the heel on a backwards march? I don't see football, soccer or basketball players doing that either. Also, what's natural about marching on to a football field and playing music? Not a darn thing! If anything, marching posture is counterproductive to brass playing (forcing of horn angles, in particular, goes against certain mouthpiece placements). What we do is not natural and I'll continue to prefer a slightly bent (appearing straight) "and" beat with a straight downbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 How many ballet dancers have you seen moving about the stage at 180 bpm for extended periods of time with straight legs? I'm at dance events all the time, seeing major companies from around the world, and have yet to witness that. And how many Football or Basketball players are attempting to coordinate uniform body movement? In that aspect drum corps reflects closer to Ballet than Sports. I know, I know, some folks are determined to see drum corps as a fine art, but it's really still just band on grass, and as such, more sports than art. Why do you feel it necessary to inject your condescension toward the views of others within the drum corps activity? Stu, I'd posit that with the knee and ankle turned out (both of them positions that the hip flexor is designed to allow), the motion of crabwalking, while unusual, isn't unnatural. The lower joints are flexing in a totally natural fashion to allow the crossover step. And I would posit that as long as the human body can execute both a straight leg motion and bent knee motion that they are both regular and natural in the same manner you are attempting to justify the crab. That being said, it strikes me that talking about the two schools of thought on this topic is probably right up there with discussing religion and politics, with all of the participants being fervent in their beliefs. I doubt any of us would convince anyone else to change positions. Not trying to change your position, just seeing if you were 'consistent' with your position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) Kind of like rolling on to the heel on a backwards march? I don't see football, soccer or basketball players doing that either. Also, what's natural about marching on to a football field and playing music? Not a darn thing! If anything, marching posture is counterproductive to brass playing (forcing of horn angles, in particular, goes against certain mouthpiece placements). What we do is not natural and I'll continue to prefer a slightly bent (appearing straight) "and" beat with a straight downbeat. I contend that some things are more difficult to execute but if the human body can accomplish the task it is by definition 'natural'. But since you are limiting your definition of 'natural' in the manner you have just done in this post (ie what's natural about marching on to a football field and playing music), then you must also contend that... The activities of Synchronized Swimming or Water Polo are also not 'natural' acts by humans because we must teach ourselves the skill sets to not only swim but to do so with very complex contortions to our bodies. Edited February 9, 2013 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 (edited) I contend that some things are more difficult to execute but if the human body can accomplish the task it is by definition 'natural'. But since you are limiting your definition of 'natural' in the manner you have just done in this post (ie what's natural about marching on to a football field and playing music), then you must also contend that... The activities of Synchronized Swimming or Water Polo are also not 'natural' acts by humans because we must teach ourselves the skill sets to not only swim but to do so with very complex contortions to our bodies. I think the idea here shouldn't so much be "if the human body can accomplish the task it is by definition 'natural'". I think it should be more a "performing motions that will do the least amount of damage to the body" type of thing.... Bending the knees like one does naturally during walking seems to do the less stressful ( on the body ) type of motion. Edited February 10, 2013 by jjeffeory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I think the idea here should so much be "if the human body can accomplish the task it is by definition 'natural'". I think it should be more a "performing motions that will do the least amount of damage to the body" type of thing.... Bending the knees like one does naturally during walking seems to do the less stressful ( on the body ) type of motion. While I agree that we need to do things to minimize injuries, nevertheless this still is an athletic activity which comes with risk. If you want to curtail the performing motion which does the most amount of damage in drum corps then eliminate the sharp/immediate direction changes at nearly 200bpm; but that would certainly change the activity much in the same manner as eliminating tackles would in football. These situations (direction changes in corps and tackles in football) have caused most of the broken/shattered joints and bones, whereas I cannot think of any increase or decrease in injuries when comparing straight-leg to bent-knee marching styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 While I agree that we need to do things to minimize injuries, nevertheless this still is an athletic activity which comes with risk. If you want to curtail the performing motion which does the most amount of damage in drum corps then eliminate the sharp/immediate direction changes at nearly 200bpm; but that would certainly change the activity much in the same manner as eliminating tackles would in football. These situations (direction changes in corps and tackles in football) have caused most of the broken/shattered joints and bones, whereas I cannot think of any increase or decrease in injuries when comparing straight-leg to bent-knee marching styles. I haven't seen a sharp direction change from a corps in a very long time, let alone at 200bpm. I'm not even really talking about the immediate injuries. I'm thinking about the damage done to backs and knees from certain techniques compared to other techniques over the course of a marching career. Honestly, I enjoy watching any style performed well and uniformly, so that's not a problem for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I haven't seen a sharp direction change from a corps in a very long time, let alone at 200bpm. Then you have not been on a drum corps bus in the middle of a metro area, in rush hour, trying to get to a contest after the staff ran rehearsal late for that last change to the show! I'm not even really talking about the immediate injuries. I'm thinking about the damage done to backs and knees from certain techniques compared to other techniques over the course of a marching career. And this is different than concerns which exist in all other high stress physical activities how? Honestly, I enjoy watching any style performed well and uniformly, so that's not a problem for me. Ditto! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 are Cavaliers/SCV legs straight on the downbeats? it doesn't seem like it to me but I admit I haven't watched closely and you can't really see too well on the dvds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Then you have not been on a drum corps bus in the middle of a metro area, in rush hour, trying to get to a contest after the staff ran rehearsal late for that last change to the show! Touche! And this is different than concerns which exist in all other high stress physical activities how? No difference in the concern, Stu! I have to say that these long term health concerns are some of the justifications for using one technique over another in the marching arts. In other high stress physical activities, they have evolved their techniques and rules as well over time. Each activity does it in a different way... It just so happens in the activity that we're discussing, the "look" of the technique is important as well as the "function" of the technique and what it does to the body. In many other high stress physical activities, the look doesn't matter as long as it obtains a desired result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.