Straight Leg or Bent Leg?

[Stu]

No difference in the concern, Stu! I have to say that these long term health concerns are some of the justifications for using one technique over another in the marching arts.

I am all for using motion which is least damaging to the body. There was an article a few years back written by John Wooton concerning how stiff many high school players were getting with their strokes; and that it was causing them to develop tendonitis, carpel tunnel syndrome, etc... but he also stated that this stiffness was taught out of expediency because it takes a tremendous amount of time and skill to master a uniform relaxed fluid stroke. That said, I have not seen, nor have I read any articles, concerning how a straight-leg marching style has caused any more or less long-term joint or cartilage damage for DCI age-outs than a bent-knee style.

In other high stress physical activities, they have evolved their techniques and rules as well over time. Each activity does it in a different way...

True; but one must still throw another to the ground, and harshly I might add, in Football. It is an integral part of the game.

[fsubone]

are Cavaliers/SCV legs straight on the downbeats? it doesn't seem like it to me but I admit I haven't watched closely and you can't really see too well on the dvds.

Yes they are. Both forwards and backwards technique. The bend really only comes through on the pass through or "and" count. On the backwards count, the leg doesn't go completely straight on the instant that the foot lands, but the leg does straighten down to look almost like a straight leg march. The reasoning behind the bent knee is that is smooths out the motion, removes and kind of terrain concerns from marching; and if someone takes a picture of a performer, shouldn't be able to tell if they are moving forwards or backwards on an and count.

To fully see the straight leg, you would need either a high speed camera or the ability to slow down your DVD to see it. The motion is so fast that it is hard to see. Try and check out Cavaliers 2000 or SCV 2009 for a good way to see it. Both have good shots of low down on a company front, where the tempo is slow enough that you can see the legs go straight on the forward motion.

Edited February 10, 2013 by fsubone

[soccerguy315]

Yes they are. Both forwards and backwards technique. The bend really only comes through on the pass through or "and" count. On the backwards count, the leg doesn't go completely straight on the instant that the foot lands, but the leg does straighten down to look almost like a straight leg march. The reasoning behind the bent knee is that is smooths out the motion, removes and kind of terrain concerns from marching; and if someone takes a picture of a performer, shouldn't be able to tell if they are moving forwards or backwards on an and count.

To fully see the straight leg, you would need either a high speed camera or the ability to slow down your DVD to see it. The motion is so fast that it is hard to see. Try and check out Cavaliers 2000 or SCV 2009 for a good way to see it. Both have good shots of low down on a company front, where the tempo is slow enough that you can see the legs go straight on the forward motion.

thanks. really appreciate the explanation and the clip suggestions, I will look at those!

[TerriTroop]

I think injuries and long term concerns are less about technique and more about the increase in tempos and rapid direction changes. As much as people harp on BD about their supposed lack of demand on the move (falsely, I might add), they seem to have developed a technique that addresses both concerns well. Off season conditioning, including proper development of core strength that serves proper alignment and support of the entire body in motion, is a necessity now. Good physical conditioning teaches how to use those core muscles to prevent injury and damage. This is where BD looks most impressive to me. When I watch their bodies in motion I do not fear that they are just one direction change from disaster. I can't say that for a lot of other corps, even at the top levels. They look stressful when they move, regardless of which technique they are using.

[TESB]

I think injuries and long term concerns are less about technique and more about the increase in tempos and rapid direction changes. As much as people harp on BD about their supposed lack of demand on the move (falsely, I might add), they seem to have developed a technique that addresses both concerns well. Off season conditioning, including proper development of core strength that serves proper alignment and support of the entire body in motion, is a necessity now. Good physical conditioning teaches how to use those core muscles to prevent injury and damage. This is where BD looks most impressive to me. When I watch their bodies in motion I do not fear that they are just one direction change from disaster. I can't say that for a lot of other corps, even at the top levels. They look stressful when they move, regardless of which technique they are using.

ahhhh, this is the Truth. BD's shows are not really any easier than any other corps' show any given year. The exception might be the ridiculousness that Crown pulled off this past summer and they were rewarded, but they certainly did look like they were one direction change from a disaster (earlier in this thread someone noted that Cadets didn't look as straight as Crown this year and idk what that person is smoking). I know it's been said before and sounds unbelievable, but there's just something about the way BD moves that you never notice the difficulty not only in stamina, but in odd counts, odd assignments, and pulling off moves that don't look like you could just slap it on pyware, print it, and forget it.

[Mello Dude]

ahhhh, this is the Truth. BD's shows are not really any easier than any other corps' show any given year. The exception might be the ridiculousness that Crown pulled off this past summer and they were rewarded, but they certainly did look like they were one direction change from a disaster (earlier in this thread someone noted that Cadets didn't look as straight as Crown this year and idk what that person is smoking). I know it's been said before and sounds unbelievable, but there's just something about the way BD moves that you never notice the difficulty not only in stamina, but in odd counts, odd assignments, and pulling off moves that don't look like you could just slap it on pyware, print it, and forget it.

I would also point out that black pants and shoes hide a LOT compared to lighter colors. I for one have see straight leg, have marched both techniques and while straight leg is really ONLY for visual it is a LOT harder on your joints. Ah to be young again and have the joints to still do those shows! :)

[Stu]

I would also point out that black pants and shoes hide a LOT compared to lighter colors. I for one have see straight leg, have marched both techniques and while straight leg is really ONLY for visual...

So, if that is true then straight-leg, black pants, black socks, black shoes = better score and potential wins; correct?

... it is a LOT harder on your joints. Ah to be young again and have the joints to still do those shows! :)

Whether bad in the long-term or not, this drum corps activity of ours is not the only entity in which performers are willing to make those types of sacrifices for a possible World Championship appearance or win.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Stu

[Mello Dude]

So, if that is true then straight-leg, black pants, black socks, black shoes = better score and potential wins; correct?

Whether bad in the long-term or not, this drum corps activity of ours is not the only entity in which performers are willing to make those types of sacrifices for a possible World Championship appearance or win.

Possibly..or, a lot less work making it look "perfect" because it doesn't show up in the box as much. If black was so easy to see we would be striping the fields in black lines rather than white.

This is correct, the choice is theirs. Although, there are things in my youth I did I am paying for now that if I had KNOWN more or could see this far down the road I probably would have done things differently.

[Stu]

Possibly..or, a lot less work making it look "perfect" because it doesn't show up in the box as much. If black was so easy to see we would be striping the fields in black lines rather than white.

Since it is very hard to discern quality variances when units wear black pants/shoes, should a judge give an extra few points to any unit that is marching as close to perfect as humanly possible with white or light colored pants/shoes over a corps wearing black or dark colored pants/shoes which can easily hide many imperfections? If not, then why bother wearing white or light colored pants/shoes which makes things more difficult?

[Mello Dude]

Since it is very hard to discern quality variances when units wear black pants/shoes, should a judge give an extra few points to any unit that is marching as close to perfect as humanly possible with white or light colored pants/shoes over a corps wearing black or dark colored pants/shoes which can easily hide many imperfections? If not, then why bother wearing white or light colored pants/shoes which makes things more difficult?

Per se, no. Because the political price someone would pay for even thinking it much less saying it. White allows you to look bigger on the field. It also allows the contrast of colors to be that more striking at a cost of everything MUCH more visible and out there.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Mello Dude