Differences in BD, Cavies, Cadets Championship seasons

[theCHEZman]

I think some has to do with MM talent also.

Cadets just don't pull in the same type and amount of talent as BD and Cavies do. Hell... knowing some of the people who marched there they have had some real #### bags, quite a few of them some years... and they turn them in to pretty #### good performers by the end.. or at least good enough not to tick the #### out of the show and they blend in really well.

It might have something to do with the talent pool itself. But I can't pin point the reason. Could be that music education in much of the NE is ### backwards.. if it is even happening in a school at all.

The biggest thing is just the book. They put out extrememly demanding, yet effective shows every year. It takes a while to clean that. When it gets clean, and the design is firing on all cylinders like 2011 and 2005... it blows every other corps out of the water IMO. BD does not put out the same type of demand Cadets do, same with Cavies (Michael Gaines is truly a very very gifted writer. His drill is a lot easier to march than it looks. Genius stuff really. So effective... so smart, easier to clean. Not a knock.. I really admire his work, it's just different than "Cadet" drill).

The Cadets just do things differently. There is a reason they work harder than everyone else. And ya know what. The hard work pays off. No matter how much I might "hate" a Cadets show like 2006 or the narration in 2007, or the 2008 crap... I am still entertained and wowed by what the horns, guard and percussion pull off every year on that field.

Make you're correct on the demand issue. Certainly less park and bark or body movement then some. I guess I was waiting for someone to dissect the concept of layering a show throughout the season vs coming out of the gate complete and trying to just clean. Thanks for your insight. BTW, somewhere this winter Cadets caption head for Brass and Percussion commented on the high level of talent this year so I don't see MM talent as an issue..

[glory]

As recently as the 2011 championship year, they were ranked 4th at the first regional.

Fair enough. Cadets' championship runs haven't been characterized by long undefeated the streaks the way BD and Cavies have managed at times.

HH

[Jeff Ream]

I'm not sure the premise is correct. If I recall, Cadets have been dominant through the season more often than not in recent championship years. Someone already mentioned 2000. I think they were winning well in 1998 too. They certainly were throughought in 2011. That leaves 2005 as the exception (which is interesting because 2005 surely wasn't a banner year for either BD or Cavies).

HH

edit: fixed typo in 2011 year.

in 11 they went back and forth with BD a lot.

the key to Cadets is moreso than probably with any other corps, what you see in June is not what you see in August. Yes, talent wise, they do not always draw all pro players. That well known kaledioscopic whiplash drill takes a while to gel and clean. They change a ton. The staf isn't afraid to tinker. I once watched them rehearse a 4 count change for an hour....only to change it again. I know the working smarter vs harder debate has happened, but I also see a lot of intelligence in how Cadets design and rehearse...it's just a different style than say what BD does. But it works. I know people who marched there that probably shouldn't on paper have even sniffed the corps talent wise. But they worked their ##### off.

In todays environment of accusing kids of chasing rings etc, I'll say one thing for Cadets.....way more often than not, it's not the ring there. It's the chance to wear that uniform. Which is why Starting C2 was genius

[MilesandCassius]

in 11 they went back and forth with BD a lot.

the key to Cadets is moreso than probably with any other corps, what you see in June is not what you see in August. Yes, talent wise, they do not always draw all pro players. That well known kaledioscopic whiplash drill takes a while to gel and clean. They change a ton. The staf isn't afraid to tinker. I once watched them rehearse a 4 count change for an hour....only to change it again. I know the working smarter vs harder debate has happened, but I also see a lot of intelligence in how Cadets design and rehearse...it's just a different style than say what BD does. But it works. I know people who marched there that probably shouldn't on paper have even sniffed the corps talent wise. But they worked their ##### off.

In todays environment of accusing kids of chasing rings etc, I'll say one thing for Cadets.....way more often than not, it's not the ring there. It's the chance to wear that uniform. Which is why Starting C2 was genius

Well said. All of it. I'm an alum of Cadets, and everything you say about them is correct.

[whitedawn]

BD goes by the mantra "work smarter, not harder." Works pretty well for them...better than Cadets if you rack up the caption and ring wins.

You don't have to beat your kids into the ground to get results. There are any number of stories of people who came to BD from other corps and were shocked at the more relaxed atmosphere (when required) and the results the staff got out of the members.

Yeah, but this assumes that the same level of talent walks into BD and Cadets in November. This is simply NOT the case. BD's hornline is usually comprised of guys that the Cadets would consider the "best" guys in the line.

I marched in the Cadets for six years, and every year was surprised about the lack of proficiency that some guys who made it into the hornline had. We'd have guys who barely knew which end of the horn to blow into, or were trumpet players who ended up on euphonium, etc.

It's just different strokes for different folks. If the Cadets want to ram for 9 hours on a rehearsal day, more power to them. If BD wants to get up at 2:30 and then do some ensemble before taking a 3 hour break before leaving for the show, more power to them.

I guess the takeaway is that in the abstract, no one could reasonably argue that the Cadets don't have a more demanding rehearsal schedule. It works for them, just like BD's schedule and Cavaliers' schedule works for them.

[MisterA]

I don't think talent is ever in question when it comes to any of these 3 corps, at least not since the early 90s. These 3 corps are almost always at the top of their game, which is why most years they usually place in the top 3. And in turn, they attract some of the best talent.

One difference I have noticed in BD and Cavaliers most recent runs, is the fact they seem to come out of the gate extremely clean. They seem to start with an early season lead and the other corps are left scrambling to catch up.

I also don't think saying Cadets work harder than anyone else could be considered a fair statement. While their rehearsal styles may vary, I think they all work EXTREMELY hard. You don't make the top 3 on a consistent basis without working extremely hard. And while Cavies may have a little more relaxed rehearsals than the other two(from the rehearsals I have been to of all 3 corps over the years) they get just as much accomplished as the other two. Cadets rehearsals seem to focus more on drill and BD almost seem to focus on music more. I have been to BD rehearsals where they have worked over an hour and a half on just a couple of bars of music, and this was mid to late season. They focused a little more on attacks, articulation and dynamics than the other corps have(again, just from the rehearsals I have been to).

I think Cadets usually start out with what appears to be a more difficult show, and sometimes it takes a litte longer in the season to clean. And maybe because of this, it seems like they have fewer noticeable changes during the late season. And other than 2000, when they went undefeated all season until Cavies tied them at finals, it seems like they usually start a little lower early season, and build to winning the championship. BD usually starts out extremely clean, and stays solid all season long. And in the Cavies championship years, it really seems like they come out strong, but usually about mid-season, you can almost see that they are going to win the championship that year.

[kickhaltsforlife]

Incorrect.

Says the guy in the pit...

[2000Cadet]

BD goes by the mantra "work smarter, not harder." Works pretty well for them...better than Cadets if you rack up the caption and ring wins.

You don't have to beat your kids into the ground to get results. There are any number of stories of people who came to BD from other corps and were shocked at the more relaxed atmosphere (when required) and the results the staff got out of the members.

Saying Cadets work harder than anyone else isn't an indicator of anything...and it kinda slaps in the face any other cops out there, in all divisions.

As is "beat your kids into the ground to get results" is a slap in the face to the corps your comment seemed to imply about.

Each corps has its different way of doing things. Neither way is right, and neither is wrong. That's just the teaching style of the corps. We don't have to elevate one corps' way of doing things by degrading another's.

[kickhaltsforlife]

I do have to say... I can count on one hand the people who marched at Cadets who didn't like their experience. And it wasn't that they hated their time there. Drum corps just wasn't for them overall.

And I think Jeff said it earlier. Ring chasers don't usually go to Cadets. People who want to march Cadets go to the Cadets.

[Jeff Ream]

I do have to say... I can count on one hand the people who marched at Cadets who didn't like their experience. And it wasn't that they hated their time there. Drum corps just wasn't for them overall.

And I think Jeff said it earlier. Ring chasers don't usually go to Cadets. People who want to march Cadets go to the Cadets.

Agreed. Now let's be honest...being a Cadet means you have a shot on paper every off season. You can say many things about Hop and YEA, and god knows I have, and will continue to, but you cannot deny the machine put together. Aungst leaves? Ok you get Colin. Sactig for Mark. it goes on.

IMO, if there is one flaw in the machine it's Hop......he gets too invested in the design and perhaps tweaks too much with agendas.