fsubone Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Bayonne in the mid 70's-early 80's had ROCK SOLID execution (ok - wet concrete solid brass in 82/3)- they had their priorities straight: Get the execution down, then add the fun stuff. The way the judging was back then (tick system et al) , they had to have solid fundamentals or they would have been squashed like a bug at a Wisconsin retreat. Even without tic judging, I still think that a good solid foundation is the most important thing. You can't sell the show if the line can't play together, and the line can't play together if the staff wasn't having them listen and get their ears in tune and in time back in December/January. All of the skills for a successful drum corps all seem to build off of that solid foundation. Something about building a house on sand comes to mind. Anyways, I wish Surf the best of luck, and hopefully they can improve over the course of a season. Although, if they stay low in the rankings, people will come to see Surf perform earlier, and then stay for the rest of the show, and see everyone else. Maybe a blessing in disguise for DCI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Even without tic judging, I still think that a good solid foundation is the most important thing. You can't sell the show if the line can't play together, and the line can't play together if the staff wasn't having them listen and get their ears in tune and in time back in December/January. All of the skills for a successful drum corps all seem to build off of that solid foundation. Something about building a house on sand comes to mind. Anyways, I wish Surf the best of luck, and hopefully they can improve over the course of a season. Although, if they stay low in the rankings, people will come to see Surf perform earlier, and then stay for the rest of the show, and see everyone else. Maybe a blessing in disguise for DCI? I agree concerning fundamentals but my point was back then w/ tick judging & a judging community far less likely to reward innovations in design Bayonne would have been killed if they were not fundamentally solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Last year on July 3 the corps scored a 66.0. Like last year, tonight's show in Bristol, RI will be the corps' fourth of the season. I'm willing to wait and see if the folks there talk more about their score or how much they were thoroughly entertained. Here's a thought, though: does it greatly diminish entertainment of the average show-fan if the corps is performing poorly? I'm not saying scores matter in regards to entertainment, but for me and most people I know (who have drum corps experience so we have our own bias, maybe) if a corps if really dirty it is very hard to appreciate/like. I can appreciate a show I don't like if it's performed well, but it's hard to be entertained by mediocre performance. Obviously Surf was beloved last year by the masses, so maybe performance quality isn't as big a factor to the majority of drum corps-attending fans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) Is entertainment without execution as entertaining? I like the concept Surf has, where they're taking a different route to reach out to fans. I do agree through the execution is more impressive than just a fun show. Even when Bridgemen and VK were doing fun shows, they were executing them well. If Surf could figure that out, I think they'd be in a great position. I watched the Fan Network video, and heard sounds in the horns I haven't heard except on old recordings, lots of stick-outs and raw sounds. Hopefully their season will rapidly improve for them. I want them to do great and get people in the stands early to see the lower corps. Side-note, I know that they haven't been rehearsing very long, but neither has OC, or Pacific Crest, and it hasn't stopped them from doing well I'll say this regarding VK from what I've gathered talking to staffers and vets of the corps: When VK was at their best, in the mid/late-80's to early 90's, VK was about solid execution and THEN the schtick. When VK was struggling more (94-96), they were "pressing it" with entertainment and fun schtick at the expense of solid design & execution foundation. It's one thing to be entertaining with a solid-executing corps: it's a whole other to try to be entertaining with poor execution. Focusing everything on entertainment at the expense of cohesive design and fundamental or even excelling performance comes across as desperation: a sort of, "well we can't to great performance so lets at least try to be funny or entertaining or something." It's never good when that gets focused more than solid execution Edited July 4, 2013 by perc2100 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Oh, and if you guys are judging surf off the CYO Nationals video, you're getting the wrong impression. Even the Cadets sound pretty bad on that recording. IDK: my impression of Surf is based on last year's show/performance philosophy. I agree that if they could actually execute well it would be FAR more interesting than the cursory, "yeah: they're trying to be entertaining and I like that" factor, rather than, "this entertaining corps is performing the HE11 out of this show and I'm LOVING IT!!" factor I think all of us wish/hope Surf can eventually pull off. I saw a video of a recent performance that seemed like a major step backwards from last year's Championships week performance. I was expecting a LOT better, but it feels more like a step back than a leap forward. I'm glad to hear from others who see them a heck of a lot more than I do that they are in a better place than last year at this time, but I guess I was expecting more: especially hearing about real god vet retention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Bayonne in the mid 70's-early 80's had ROCK SOLID execution (ok - wet concrete solid brass in 82/3)- they had their priorities straight: Get the execution down, then add the fun stuff. The way the judging was back then (tick system et al) , they had to have solid fundamentals or they would have been squashed like a bug at a Wisconsin retreat. I totally agree, and VK had pretty great performances in the mid/late-80's (particularly 87 & 88). I want to be a fan who says, "This corps is performing the snot out of a really entertaining show!" instead of, "well, I like that they're trying to entertain us, at least, even if they're performance is sub-par." I don't mind a corps pandering to emotions if done well (I'm not a huge fan of when Scouts did EMPIRE STATE OF MIND, but they had the audience with the palm of their hands BECAUSE they performed it well), but when they do that type of thing AND perform poorly it comes across as desperation to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCHEZman Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I agree concerning fundamentals but my point was back then w/ tick judging & a judging community far less likely to reward innovations in design Bayonne would have been killed if they were not fundamentally solid. They also had smart design. Played standing still, moved when not necessarily playing, low marking time which hid false starts, stops etc. Hoffman was very smart when it came to hiding tics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I totally agree, and VK had pretty great performances in the mid/late-80's (particularly 87 & 88). I want to be a fan who says, "This corps is performing the snot out of a really entertaining show!" instead of, "well, I like that they're trying to entertain us, at least, even if they're performance is sub-par." I don't mind a corps pandering to emotions if done well (I'm not a huge fan of when Scouts did EMPIRE STATE OF MIND, but they had the audience with the palm of their hands BECAUSE they performed it well), but when they do that type of thing AND perform poorly it comes across as desperation to me Someone on DCP once said words to the effect - "Good execution is good GE". True in 1950's dump corps, true today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 They also had smart design. Played standing still, moved when not necessarily playing, low marking time which hid false starts, stops etc. Hoffman was very smart when it came to hiding tics. He also taught 1972 Anaheim, - no hiding ticks there... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I watched Jersey Surf last night no the DCI Fan Network and was eager to see what they were up to. I was disappointed in the lack of clarity in all areas - drill, music, guard, percussion... it is a mess. LOTS of potential that I hope they tap in to.... so I'll hold off my final verdict until later this month. Keep on having a blast Surf (but please, for the love of God, CLEAN IT UP!). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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