corpsband Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 If you're reading reviews of steakhouses, and the reviewer gives the top award to the one with the best food overall, even though their steak was marginal, then that was a bad methodology. You want the best steak. Similarly, we want to know the best drum and bugle corps show, not the best show per se. Does that make sense? It all makes sense. The catch here is when you plug in "drum corps" for steak. Steak has a well-defined fairly universal meaning (although I've been served too many steaks not worthy of the name ) . ((And even so some people would never touch a rare steak (raw meat!) or a well-done steak (shoe leather!) )) Drum corps OTOH is constantly evolving and changing. So "best drum and bugle corps" today may not be the same product as "best drum and bugle corps" 5 years ago. In fact there are constantly appearing threads here on DCP about this very topic "What *is* drum corps? What should it be? " Like it or not (or better perhaps: *prefer* it or not) -- AE&V is part of the landscape. You can embrace it or long for the days without it. It's a matter of choice. I prefer to be blown away by the product that *is* drum corps today. And I'm so glad I'm not MISSING OUT on the stupendous product on the field now just because I was too busy whining about what I wish drum corps would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Fieldpaint Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Which part do you hate? 1) The incredibly high level of execution? 2) The attention to detail? 3) That it is incredibly crowd friendly? 4) That it has plenty of old school swagger yet young fans can relate too? Oh wait, the singing? It was ok in the past when corps would stop after a big hit and sing their corps song but it is completely unacceptable to sing now? You go on hating my corps yet I look at your avatar and think about the cool shows that Freelancers performed over the years past and wish they were still around too. Are you really a fan of this activity or just a fan of whatever you feel like needs to be on the field? Seriously now, from one Crown vet to another, if they don't like the show, they just don't like the show. If they hate amplified narration then that's what they hate. If that's enough for them to not be able to enjoy the other parts of the show that's just their opinion. Everything you said in your response could be said by a Blue Devils vet/fan defending their show. We don't need to get into knee-jerk defense mode because someone dislikes something. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) For me the use of voice in Crown's show fits into 2 categories, the counting and the story telling in the ballad. I think the counting might be the best use of voice in drum corps yet. It is innovative, enhances the effect of the design theme and the music, and is not intrusive to the drum corps sound I love. It is performed live, requiring a level of talent in performance. (Performance that currently is excellent) The story telling on the other hand I find objectionable. What is being said, regardless of whether it is original source material or not, is sophomoric in content, almost "corny", and is not needed to sell such a simple idea as love "that has no bounds". It distracts me from what the brass is doing. I find myself "groaning" inside when they start it, and again when they bring it back. I think the same thing every time I hear the "their love was so profound that no spoken words were necessary"...that is...RIGHT...so shut the %^@+ up! It seems that many Crown honks just dismiss this objection by citing that it's from some original source material, therefore it fits perfectly. Well, not for me. That does not mean that I will be getting a hot dog for this show, simply that I wish that section matched the rest of my admiration and enjoyment of this fantastic drum corps. Edited July 10, 2013 by truman 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 It all makes sense. The catch here is when you plug in "drum corps" for steak. Steak has a well-defined fairly universal meaning (although I've been served too many steaks not worthy of the name ) . ((And even so some people would never touch a rare steak (raw meat!) or a well-done steak (shoe leather!) )) Drum corps OTOH is constantly evolving and changing. So "best drum and bugle corps" today may not be the same product as "best drum and bugle corps" 5 years ago. In fact there are constantly appearing threads here on DCP about this very topic "What *is* drum corps? What should it be? " Like it or not (or better perhaps: *prefer* it or not) -- AE&V is part of the landscape. You can embrace it or long for the days without it. It's a matter of choice. I prefer to be blown away by the product that *is* drum corps today. And I'm so glad I'm not MISSING OUT on the stupendous product on the field now just because I was too busy whining about what I wish drum corps would be. Yes, and I'm all in favor of the evolution. I've only seen Crown's show on the pressbox vid, but from that I would say the 1-1, 2-2 stuff is very effective, while the lovers/park bench stuff seems to obstruct/replace the brass and percussion for a fair amount of time. But I haven't seen it live, or even multi-cam yet, so I don't know. Speaking of which, Drums Along the Rockies is listed as multi-camera, and was July 6, but is not yet on FN. As soon as it gets there I'll be watching that show closely! (The single camera shows are highly compressed/ pixelated as I get them which makes it hard to see the visuals; I wonder if compression increases as more viewers compete for DCI's bandwidth?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13strokeroll Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) I guess not, because I do not agree that there is an "inability" to add new fans. I am certainly in favor of reaching out to new fans, and (equally important) retaining existing fans. Well, expecting dc novices to blindly wander into a 100 degree stadium, plunk down $40 if they have any clue what a "good seat" is and still deal with their knees in someone's butt in front of then as we'll as bleacher back, etc etc etc is my definition of short sighted. When a family member marched last year, friends replied with, "oh, that thing which used to be on ESPN. I thought that died." A potential audience was reached yet is no longer. An excellent example that the fan network and movie simulcasts may be fiscally wiser than public broadcasting, but draws a smaller base with almost none being the "uninitiated", and in the end does little to grow the product. Edited July 10, 2013 by 13strokeroll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) I find myself "groaning" inside when they start it, I admit to having this reaction when I first heard it. But it grew on me. Somehow it fits the music and the moment. Not sure how or why. It seems that many Crown honks just dismiss this objection by citing that it's from some original source material, therefore it fits perfectly. Well, not for me. I've posted on the topic but never dismissed the objection. I understand the reaction. Most of my posts refute the idea that the narration is over the Abyss material and therefore does NOT support the design. THAT argument I dismiss. It's irrelevant -- the material *does* support the show design whether it's spoken over part of EOTB, the Abyss, or in complete silence. Edited July 10, 2013 by corpsband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 [/size] I admit to having this reaction when I first heard it. But it grew on me. Somehow it fits the music and the moment. Not sure how or why. [/size] I've posted on the topic but never dismissed the objection. I understand the reaction. Most of my posts refute the idea that the narration is over the Abyss material and therefore does NOT support the design. THAT argument I dismiss. It's irrelevant -- the material *does* support the show design whether it's spoken over part of EOTB, the Abyss, or in complete silence. Actually, you weren't really one of the "honks" I was thinking about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 For me the use of voice in Crown's show fits into 2 categories, the counting and the story telling in the ballad. I think the counting might be the best use of voice in drum corps yet. It is innovative, enhances the effect of the design theme and the music, and is not intrusive to the drum corps sound I love. It is performed live, requiring a level of talent in performance. (Performance that currently is excellent) The story telling on the other hand I find objectionable. What is being said, regardless of whether it is original source material or not, is sophomoric in content, almost "corny", and is not needed to sell such a simple idea as love "that has no bounds". It distracts me from what the brass is doing. I find myself "groaning" inside when they start it, and again when they bring it back. I think the same thing every time I hear the "their love was so profound that no spoken words were necessary"...that is...RIGHT...so shut the %^@+ up! It seems that many Crown honks just dismiss this objection by citing that it's from some original source material, therefore it fits perfectly. Well, not for me. That does not mean that I will be getting a hot dog for this show, simply that I wish that section matched the rest of my admiration and enjoyment of this fantastic drum corps. Unlike some others, I do interpret this as extremely sarcastic. The proof is exactly your point that their love is supposedly so strong that words are not needed, but then promptly flow in a torrent. My first interpretation was that this is an absurd way of looking at love, tying in with the 'everything is relative' implications of the show. The idea that real love is in daily living and small expressions, not in grand and glorious pronouncements. But I wouldn't be surprised if Glass himself wanted (or at least expected) it it be interpreted literally by some, and maybe he found that amusing. Modern art is often intentionally vague that way. Try interpreting a Red Hot Chili Peppers lyric some time. Or System Of A Down. Vagueness is in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Unlike some others, I do interpret this as extremely sarcastic. The proof is exactly your point that their love is supposedly so strong that words are not needed, but then promptly flow in a torrent. My first interpretation was that this is an absurd way of looking at love, tying in with the 'everything is relative' implications of the show. The idea that real love is in daily living and small expressions, not in grand and glorious pronouncements. But I wouldn't be surprised if Glass himself wanted (or at least expected) it it be interpreted literally by some, and maybe he found that amusing. Modern art is often intentionally vague that way. Try interpreting a Red Hot Chili Peppers lyric some time. Or System Of A Down. Vagueness is in. If I understand this concept correctly, then the grand and glorious pronouncements are meant to be "silly" to the audience? When considering that idea, I would say they accomplish the goal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Well, expecting dc novices to blindly wander into a 100 degree stadium, plunk down $40 if they have any clue what a "good seat" is and still deal with their knees in someone's butt in front of then as we'll as bleacher back, etc etc etc is my definition of short sighted. When a family member marched last year, friends replied with, "oh, that thing which used to be on ESPN. I thought that died." A potential audience was reached yet is no longer. An excellent example that the fan network and movie simulcasts may be fiscally wiser than public broadcasting, but draws a smaller base with almost none being the "uninitiated", and in the end does little to grow the product. Well, then, by all means, reach out. Advertise, via paper, on the air, and in cyberspace. Flood YouTube with clips, or full shows if you prefer. Have corps give free promotional performances in cities, at shopping centers, on talk shows, or wherever else they can get exposure to people. Hold a show with no admission charge. Put drum corps shows on TV. Put the drum corps experience on TV in documentary form. Put drum corps in the theaters, and on stages nationwide. Is that the kind of outreach you are looking for? (P.S. It has all been done before. And it will all likely be done again - as it should be.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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