perc2100 Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Is it content? Is the actual context of Crown's show narration simply better than Cadets'? Yes; IMO Crown's vocal stuff was mostly SIGNIFICANTLY better integrated with the visual and musical design than Cadets 2007 Is it execution? Did Crown simply utilize the narration in a more effective manner than Cadets did? Yes, I think Crown's vocalists executed their narration a lot better, and yes it helps that the vocalizations were better written. Effect is arguable, but given Crown's Musical GE scores I would say it's a safe argument that Crown's vocals were more effective. Is it that the fandom is slowly accepting narration? Obviously Crown wasn't the only group to use narration, I don't remember reading as much about the dislike of this year's words. That's possible, I can't speak for anyone but myself and some of my closer friends. I think more people this year were pulling for Crown from day 1 than were pulling for Cadets 2007. After Cadets 2006 show, I think Cadets would've had a bit of a chore to pull fans back to their side with a fan-friendly show, let alone another controversial one. I know my wife was bummed to hear so much vocalization in Crown's show, but because she is a general fan of theirs she was more accepting (plus, she told me she understood how most of it fit the program). Is it that shows are becoming so outlandish that simple narration isn't so bad now? Could be. Or maybe there's been a little bit of a 'cooling off' period where there hasn't been a show so centered around narration in a few seasons. I also didn't hear many complaints about Crossmen's vocal-heavy show and they had members literally screaming at the audience throughout. So maybe it's a little more accepted now Is it Hopkins? The fact that narration is only one of a few small changes he's implored. Ha; I think it would not be out of line to argue that many people on DCP tend to not be as forgiving when it comes to what Hopkins and Cadets do vs other organizations. I think if Cadets would've done the exact same show as Crown this season it would be interesting to see how much criticism they would get (and I suspect at least a little bit more than Crown: it seems Crown got FAR more criticism for their percussion section, and rightly so, than their vocals). I'm truly not trying to cause controversy, I promise. I am just curious about what makes them different. For me personally, it's more of a "Crown 2013 is just a flat out better designed production than Cadets 2007" argument than anything else. Not only are Crown's vocals better integrated and designed (partially because many of the vocalizations were from the original source material), I think they were also better performed. For me, vocalizations have EVERYTHING to do with performance, and Cadets 2007 vocals were performed VERY amateur level. Conversely, I think they were done really well in 2005 Cadets. And while Blue Devils "Yowza" is much maligned, I think the vocals were done pretty well in context of the show. Vocals, like anything else, are hit or miss: done well it's great, done poorly it's a debacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acolli17 Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 100% agree. "Everything MUST have an ending... ...except... ...my love... ...for you." Just watch Denver (I think) to see how much emotion he put into those words. His face, his gestures - he believed those lines because they fit the meaning of the show so beautifully. "THIS, I BELIEVE" was yelling at the crowd. That wording was to convince us of the feeling of the kids in the corps. Crown's narration was completing a beautiful story by telling it in a beautiful way. Different message and different impact completely. Did anyone else who saw the quarterfinals cinecast notice him give a slight wink to someone in the audience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camel lips Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Here's my take on it. In 2007, the dialog in Cadets's show was done far too often, was written very poorly, performed haphazardly at best, and covered up way too much otherwise incredible music. The "rehearsal" stuff over Blue Shades was laughably bad. Ahh the "This I believe I need another beer show" Yes I believe I do! And Yes I believe I agree with you. Cadets Horn line that year was one of the best I have heard in many years. But they could not STFU long enough to hear them. I heard a MP3 that was recorded professionally for the Cadets shortly before finals and it was really amazing. As to Crowns use of Narration this year? Probably used the most effective that I have seen yet,,,,BUT! Lets break it down. The counting part?? Yes it fit into the show. Did I like it? NO. Did I think it was effective? Probably and obviously for the judges! But I really feel like in many ways it covered up what great work the horn line was doing in the back ground. Much like Cadets 2007. The Narrator was very good. Let me state that up front. I felt like what he was doing was unnecessary for the story and again covered up a lot of the work and was a distraction. I am hoping that other corps don't look at Crowns victory this year as a victory for Narration and plummet us with this garbage over the next few years. It was just starting to die off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 (edited) Ahh the "This I believe I need another beer show" Yes I believe I do! And Yes I believe I agree with you. Cadets Horn line that year was one of the best I have heard in many years. But they could not STFU long enough to hear them. I heard a MP3 that was recorded professionally for the Cadets shortly before finals and it was really amazing. As to Crowns use of Narration this year? Probably used the most effective that I have seen yet,,,,BUT! Lets break it down. The counting part?? Yes it fit into the show. Did I like it? NO. Did I think it was effective? Probably and obviously for the judges! But I really feel like in many ways it covered up what great work the horn line was doing in the back ground. Much like Cadets 2007. The Narrator was very good. Let me state that up front. I felt like what he was doing was unnecessary for the story and again covered up a lot of the work and was a distraction. I am hoping that other corps don't look at Crowns victory this year as a victory for Narration and plummet us with this garbage over the next few years. It was just starting to die off. I try not to weigh in on alot of this stuff BUT I will give JMO on this. This for Crown was very true to Einstein on the Beach. I thought the narrations and enhancements for many corps this year were outstanding ( Scouts for one ) Will there be many others that will do it when not necessary because they think it's the way to go because Crown or whoever did it? YES , no doubt BUT that kinda happens with alot of things. How many corps either lower WC or OC have done shows way to hard, or guards throwing everything out there but the kitchen sink before even knowing how to toss something properly or a small corps tackling something that can't be communicated with a small amount of people ,OMG how many might think of putting out a thousand props because someone else did it BUT don't have the money to spend thousands and thousands say like SCV may have with digital printing so another corps has mom and dad paint on a sheet...eeeeek, happens all the time throughout the years, Summer as well as winter. Many years ago when I 1st started out teaching in this activity, a very famous well known person in the activity ( who's still in ) said to me " Don't do as I do " be yourself, carve your own way, even if it takes a while. They also said, "I'll get away with more than you will" ( back then ) that may not be fair, it may not be right BUT how many ways of life are no different...was great advice. So sometimes we just have to suffer through this all BUT I dont think we should condem those who HAVE figured it out.....finally..........JMO :smile:/>/> Edited August 12, 2013 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acolli17 Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 FWIW, I thought Cadets' show this year was as 'drum corps' as it gets. Yeah, they had props, but that's not really new. Pure music, and they did it very well (obviously). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tez Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I'll add that in 2007, the Cadet's performance of the vocals was no where close to the performance of their brass/drums/guard.... so it seemed horribly out of place (even if it would have been written well, which it wasn't). Crown's vocals this year were at least performed at close to the same level as the brass/drum/guard.... well maybe better than the drums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxingfred Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I was going to call B.S. Talk about how being one of the first to try something new leaves you exposed to the slings and arrows of public opinion and how it's beneficial to learn from other corps past mistakes. But, Why bother So, My question is: Is it better to go out on a limb and fall short or Is it better to stay safe and let other take the lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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