Someone please explain e=mc^2 to me, because I really don't like/g

[seen-it-all]

Take out all the visual mumbo jumbo references you are injecting concerning the 2013 BK show and please tell me which music arranging style, as in 'music', best honors what Metheny desired in that original chart; '85 BD or '13 BK? Therein you will find the answer.

1998 Crossmen. Hands down.

Resume your urination contest.

[Stu]

1998 Crossmen. Hands down.

Resume your urination contest.

The 1998 Crossmen show was very respectful to the original Metheny source material; creative musical arranging yet it kept the music phrasing and melodic content intact and understandable. Great call!!!

[Pete Freedman]

Listen to the original source material of First Circle; then compare it to both the BD 1985 and BK 2013 versions. I am not seeking exact transcriptions, and I know this is a visual as well as audible activity; in fact I enjoy the visual. But what I am seeking in this modern era is more honor given back to the original source material structure. That is why most enjoyed the SCV Les Mis show so much; not just for the great visual, but also for the music which stayed close to the original source material. What has happened in this new age of DCI show design is that the visual tapestry has become so overly weighted that the music has devolved into layered motifs here and there just to support the visual. Take out all the visual mumbo jumbo references you are injecting concerning the 2013 BK show and please tell me which music arranging style, as in 'music', best honors what Metheny desired in that original chart; '85 BD or '13 BK? Therein you will find the answer.

Well, I did ask you first, at what exact point in BK's show you think fails to connect and how it fails to connect.

Terms like tapestry and motif don't really mean much to me, because every drum corps show ever put on a field has a visual tapestry throughout the show and one or several motifs as well (given that there is no clear definition of either term in regard to drum corps.) So I'm not sure what you are saying. Every drill is a tapestry. (Well, not literally. A tapestry is a rug on a wall. But figuratively.) But anyway, your're complaining about the arrangement, right?

As to which arrangement is better, I must be the dumb one, because I don't see much difference between these two versions. BD plays it better, it was after all arranged and played by the best in the drum corps business (pretty much anyway) so it does have significantly more pop to it And they may have included more of the original wild time signature changes, for instance. But I think BK seems to be trying their best to do a reasonably faithful version of this part of the tune, and indeed it sounds wonderful and connects with me. Furthermore, I don't see any visual elements interfering with this part of the show. The narration briefly kicks in at the end, but that's all.

As to which one is truer to the original, aren't they both fairly similar in terms of structure? Starting from where the percussion is in a circle around the stage and starts to leave that area, the structure seems similar both to BD and to the ending of the Metheny version to me. I've never really broken down the structure of a musical work, because I'm not an arranger and it would take some time so I have to go by feeling. But I'm basically getting the same feeling from both, but with more pop (maybe that famous aggression?) from BD.

[Pete Freedman]

Pete: To me, and by my observation of fans over the years, the following appears to be a concerning issue: If the visual is fantastic, but the music is not structured in a communicative manner with understandable phrasing and understandable melody, then the audience sets there befuddled. I am not talking about the few artistic minded in the stands who are enthralled with Performance Art, but about the overwhelming general audience sitting in the stands who are there for entertainment and have no desire to be presented with progressing the art form via performance art. Contrary to what current designers want, the public seems to want understandable music phrasing and melody along with great visual aspects; not designs that focus on just visual with the sound merely underscoring the visual aspects with layered motifs that, while they do push the artistic boundaries of music arranging, are audibly rather disjunctive. The specifics are in audience reaction. Take any show with great visual but disjunctive music and compare the crowd reaction to a show with ok visual but music which has understandable phrasing and understandable melody (Scouts Empire for example); therein is the basis for my position concerning the danger of alienating fans with this modern 'it is all about the visual' show design structure.

In the Scouts show, the two towers fell (well, one block that became two towers), everyone stands around gob-smacked, then they go into Empire, and you are telling me it was the arrangement that people were cheering for?

It was a beautiful arrangment, but how was the phrasing more 'understandable' than that in the BK '13 closer?

[Hawkeye]

It's based on an opera, which from what I understand, the way it was explained to me at least, is entirely based on mathematical and timing of music. It's not a melodic style of composition. Kind of hard to explain. Read up on the opera, it will make more sense.

[Pete Freedman]

It's based on an opera, which from what I understand, the way it was explained to me at least, is entirely based on mathematical and timing of music. It's not a melodic style of composition. Kind of hard to explain. Read up on the opera, it will make more sense.

How on-topic of you!

[Stu]

In the Scouts show, the two towers fell (well, one block that became two towers), everyone stands around gob-smacked, then they go into Empire, and you are telling me it was the arrangement that people were cheering for?

Yep! They sure were not cheering the demise of the towers.

It was a beautiful arrangement, but how was the phrasing more 'understandable' than that in the BK '13 closer?

The music phrasing and the music melodic lines in Empire were not various layers of motif tapestry loosely based on a source material, the music of Scouts Empire was straight forward and made 'musical' sense apart from the visual; the Scouts Empire musical content and communication aspects were thus not butchered or dictated by the all mighty visual. In fact the Scouts Empire so closely reflected the Alicia Keys solo piano version of Empire State of Mind (part 2) people who knew that chart could sing the melody along with the Scouts performance. This type of honoring the source material used to happen quite often where many fans fell in love with the music phrasing and music melody which made musical sense. Very few corps are producing that type of musical connection in this day and age of motif tapestry merely enhancing the all mighty visual. I am not knocking the visual, it is a very big part of the activity; but what I am knocking is the visual being so important that it creates musical arranging styles that make really no musical communicative sense.

[Stu]

It's based on an opera, which from what I understand, the way it was explained to me at least, is entirely based on mathematical and timing of music. It's not a melodic style of composition. Kind of hard to explain. Read up on the opera, it will make more sense.

I should not have to read up on the opera; that is my point.

[Stu]

Well, I did ask you first, at what exact point in BK's show you think fails to connect and how it fails to connect.

It fails because it is more about the over emphasis on abstract visual design, more about the expansion of the obscure arranging style, and especially more about the designers themselves, than it is about honoring and paying tribute to the original source material. That is how it fails to connect.

[Pete Freedman]

Well, I did ask you first, at what exact point in BK's show you think fails to connect and how it fails to connect.

It fails because it is more about the over emphasis on abstract visual design, more about the expansion of the obscure arranging style, and especially more about the designers themselves, than it is about honoring and paying tribute to the original source material. That is how it fails to connect.

I meant in time, as in "at 10:04 in the Semis FN".

I can't see what you mean. If I close my eyes, I hear pure First Circle. I don't hear anything that sounds like a modification to highlight the visual. I'm going on a long drive in a little while; I'll just listen to it for awhile on that trip.