Someone please explain e=mc^2 to me, because I really don't like/g

[Stu]

In a discussion about the use of the use of counting in Glass's "Einstein on the Beach"...

There's no indication that you ever bothered to even listen to Glass's full composition. This kind of crass commentary speaks volumes about your arrogance, ignorance, and intolerance to the diversity of musical expression.

DCI (and, secondarily, WGI) has been my primary venue to understand new music. I don't ultimately enjoy all of what I hear on the field, but I do take the time and effort to understand music before coming to judgment. EotB is available on Spotify. As long as you are pre-Mission, you have no excuse for at least listening to the music before making such crass commentary. If I knew who you were when you came to my door (or wherever you contact people on mission) odds are zero that you would be able to sell me anything. Attitude is everything, and you bring far too much baggage to the table. Capiche?

I think Crown's piece is more about the strange loops of Einstein's General Relativity than anything in particular to do with the relationship between energy and mass in Special Relativity. OTOH, Crown's title captures the concept perfectly. My first exposure to the concepts of such strange loops came from Hofstatder's brilliant title "Gödel Escher Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid". It was published in the late 1970s, is still in print, and is still available at retail bookstores (I just bought a copy for my HS-aged niece). The world has gotten much stranger since GEB was published: cellular mechanotransduction means that the function of cells (i.e., their expression of genes) alters based on mechanical signals from the surrounding tissue.

a) Do you really expect the majority of the paying audience, the majority of general paying audience who attend DCI events for reasons other than musical education, to spend days if not weeks listening to, studying, researching, and deciphering the music philosophy of Philip Glass?; and more importantly, b) Do you really think that DCI is, and should be, an educational institution for the music philosophical enlightenment of the audience? If so, fine; but most music academic courses have around 20 - maybe 100 people in the seats and do not attempt to fill an entire pro sports stadium.

[jeffmolnar]

I thought that the counting was rad! For some reason I've always enjoyed shows that feature tasteful, well-performed vocals from the marching ensemble. SCV '01 and Cavaliers '02 are some of my favorite shows of all time, particularly because of the cool vocals. Amplified singing can also be a wonderful addition to a drum corps show, in my opinion. The Cadets' ballad in 2006 practically had me in tears! Too bad about the rest of that show.

After reading some early season impressions of Crown's production on DCP I was prepared for disappointment, but when I finally saw e=mc² live at the North Dallas show I was completely blown away (in a good way). Wow. I loved both the counting and the singing, and at the time I was still thinking that the corps was using prerecorded tracks for all of it. When I watched the multi-cam live stream on Finals night and saw that the hornline started the counting from the field and the singing came from a handful of talented pit members, I was floored. There's no longer any rule saying that Crown couldn't have just used prerecorded tracks for all of those bits, but they chose not to anyway. They didn't take the easy path. They performed. Kudos to them.

Throughout my years of watching (and a brief stint marching) drum corps, I've come to enjoy a style of musical performance that I lovingly refer to as "wailing," and I can appreciate said wailing from both brass instruments and vocal cords alike. Those pit singers were wailing, y'all. One of my vertebra actually froze over and shattered under the relentless onslaught of chills. I'm not a dinosaur or anything -- at least I hope not, I'm 27 -- but I tend to prefer more "traditional" drum corps shows more often than not. Not this year. I was completely, utterly on board with e=mc²...

...until the love story bit. Talk about a sucker punch. I think my face developed its very first wrinkles from all the cringing I was doing. What bothered me wasn't that the content itself cheesy as hell (though it certainly was), it simply didn't jive with where I thought the show was going. Like the OP, I was expecting some sort of science/mathematics show with a Crown twist. Their opener reinforced that misconception, which made my disappointment all the more pronounced once the narration hit. Unlike on-field vocals and amplified singing, I've never really taken to narration because it's not grounded in music. Singing is obviously grounded in music. Even counting aloud tends to be rhythmically satisfying.

Narration is different. It's a crutch, leaned on by design teams to convey a show's message when they can't figure out how to get the job done with music and movement. A well-designed show simply does not require it. That's not to say that e=mc² was poorly designed overall; on the contrary, both the opener and closer were immaculately designed -- and not just from an entertainment perspective. If you pull back the veil and begin to dissect the show, you'll find some of the most impeccable hornline staging ever to grace the field. Good thing, too, since that brass book would have almost certainly been impossible without it. I still can't get over the brass book. It's unbelievable that those kids were able to perform it at such a stratospheric level. Flawless. Awe-inspiring, even. Then BAM! Cheesy narration. Goodbye, chills. Goodbye, harmonious trance of melody and motion. I'm back in the real world now, listening to some kid rattle on about what is arguably the most complicated aspect of the human condition. Great.

In your defense, kid, wherever you are... you did great. I initially thought that the narration was prerecorded too. Your delivery was consistently excellent, on par with what I'd expect from a professional theater performance. Seriously. I only wish that your talents had been utilized on the stage rather than the football field.

I've obviously come to learn that the narration came from the source material itself, so I suppose I understand why Crown went with it and why those familiar with the work found it to be tasteful. That said, it's been a long time (well, never, actually) since a world class corps performed a published work measure-for-measure on the field. Drum corps shows have always been arranged, these days more so than ever. Crown's design team should have left the narration on the chopping block. The show wouldn't have been any weaker, in my opinion. The "love story" would still have played out as a beautiful guard duet -- now with the audience's ears trained on the magnificent brass chorus rather than a single, amplified voice -- and the effectiveness of the rest of the (and I do hate to use this word) gimmicks would have remained equally strong. The unbelievably talented performers of Crown would have held the hearts of the audience in the palms of their hands even more so than they already did -- and they still would have won! The show was just that good.

I feel such conflicting emotions when I contemplate e=mc². On one hand, the first and last thirds of the show absolutely blew me away. The unreal performance of the hornline managed to conjure up emotions that I hadn't felt in response to a drum corps show in over a decade. Just wow. The melodious counting had me captivated from 00:01, and the beautiful singing further sucked me down the rabbit hole into Crown's amazing little world. On the other hand... the utter repulsion I felt at the onset of the narration completely obliterated the high I was riding up until that point. My emotional wave came crashing down with a vengeance. After the ballad, the corps did everything they could to bring me back up... but the damage had been done. Some bad tastes just linger on the palate no matter how hard you try to cleanse them.

At the end of the day, I'm still ecstatic that Crown won and I feel unbelievably lucky to have witnessed such virtuosity from a marching ensemble in person. A marching ensemble of young people, no less. It's just hard to dismiss the thought that the show could have been so much more. It was almost my favorite drum corps show of all time.

Almost.

Edited September 3, 2013 by jeffmolnar

[drilltech1]

I thought that the counting was rad! For some reason I've always enjoyed shows that feature tasteful, well-performed vocals from the marching ensemble. SCV 2001 and Cavaliers 2002 are some of my favorite shows of all time, particularly because of the cool vocals. Amplified singing can also be a wonderful addition to a drum corps show, in my opinion. The Cadets' ballad in 2006 practically had me in tears! Too bad about the rest of that show. :tongue:/>/>

After reading some early season impressions of Crown's show on DCP I was prepared for disappointment, but when finally saw e=mc² live in North Dallas I was completely blown away (in a good way). Wow. I loved both the counting and the singing, and at the time I was still thinking that the corps was using prerecorded tracks for all of it. When I watched the multi-cam live stream on Finals night and saw that the hornline started the counting from the field and the singing came from a handful of talented pit members, I was floored. There's no longer any rule saying that Crown couldn't have used prerecorded tracks for all of those bits, but they chose not to anyway. They didn't take the easy path. They performed. Kudos to them.

Throughout my years of watching (and a brief stint performing) drum corps, I've come to appreciate a type of musical performance that I lovingly refer to as "wailing," and I can appreciate said wailing from both brass instruments and vocal cords alike. Those pit singers were wailing, y'all. One of my vertebra actually froze over and shattered from the relentless onslaught of chills. I'm not a dinosaur or anything -- at least I hope not, I'm 27 -- but I tend to prefer more "traditional" DCI shows more often than not. Not this year. I was completely, utterly on board with e=mc²...

...until the love story bit. Talk about a sucker punch. I think my face developed it's very first wrinkles from all the cringing I was doing. What bothered me wasn't that the content itself cheesy as hell (though it certainly was), it simply didn't jive with where I thought the show was going. Like the OP, I was expecting some sort of science/match show with a Crown twist. Their opener reinforced that misconception, which made my disappointment all the more stronger once the narration hit. Unlike on-field vocals and amplified singing, I've never really taken to narration because it's not grounded in music. Singing is obviously grounded in music. Even counting aloud tends to be rhythmically satisfying.

Narration is different. It's a crutch, leaned on by design teams to convey a show's message when they can't figure out how to get the job done with music and movement. A well-designed show simply does not require it. That's not to say that e=mc² was poorly designed overall; on the contrary, both the opener and closer were immaculately designed -- and not just from an entertainment perspective. If you pull back the veil and being to dissect the show, you'll find some of the most impeccable hornline staging ever to grace the field. Good thing, too, since that brass book would have almost certainly been impossible without it. I still can't get over that brass book. It's unbelievable that those kids were able to perform it at such a stratospheric level. Flawless. Awe-inspiring, even. Then BAM! Cheesy narration. Goodbye, chills. Goodbye, harmonious trance of music and motion. I'm back in the real world now, listening to some kid rattle on about what is arguably the most complicated aspect of the human condition. Great.

In your defense, kid, wherever you are... you did great. I initially thought that the narration was prerecorded too. Your delivery was consistently excellent, on par with what I'd expect from a professional stage performance. Seriously. I only wish that your talents had been utilized on the stage rather than the football field.

I've obviously come to learn that the narration came from the source material itself, so I suppose I understand why Crown went with it and why those familiar with the work found it to be tasteful. That said, it's been a long time (well, never, actually) since a world class corps performed a published work measure-for-measure on the field. Drum corps shows have always been arranged, these days more so than ever. Crown's design team should have left the narration on the chopping block. The show wouldn't have been any weaker, in my opinion. The "love story" would still have played out as a beautiful guard duet -- now with the audience's ears trained on the magnificent brass chorus rather than a single, amplified voice -- and the effectiveness of the rest of the (and I do hate to use this word) gimmicks would have remained equally strong, perhaps even more so. The unbelievably talented performers of Crown would have held the hearts of the audience in the palms of their hands even more so than they already did -- and they still would have won! The show was just that good.

I feel such conflicting emotions when I contemplate e=mc². On one hand, the first and last thirds of the show absolutely blew me away. The unreal performance of the hornline managed to conjure up emotions that I hadn't felt in response to a drum corps show in over a decade. Just wow. The melodious counting had me captivated from 00:01, and the beautiful singing further sucked me down the rabbit hole into Crown's amazing little world. On the other hand... the utter repulsion I felt at the onset of the narration completely obliterated the high I was riding up until that point. My emotional wave came crashing down with a vengeance. After the ballad, the corps did everything they could to bring me back up... but the damage had been done. Some bad tastes just linger on the palette no matter how hard you try to cleanse them.

At the end of the day, I'm still ecstatic that Crown won and I feel unbelievably lucky to have witnessed such virtuosity from a marching ensemble in person. A marching ensemble of young people no less. It's just hard to dismiss the thought that the show could have been so much more. It was almost my favorite DCI show of all time.

Almost.

You explain yourself well and are clear in your conclusions....but not in all the observations. Though the singers and counters and narrator stood in the pit, not all were front ensemble members but I think all were musicians.

In fact, the narrator was a low brass horn player, the horn sgt. I think. So if one figures in the breathing control and diction maintained in counting, singing, and appropriately and consistently reciting the narration while also doing that great horn score with the simultaneous demand of the body work and rest of the visual involvement, my respect for what they perform only grows. Perhaps you might adjust your assessment in light of that appreciation while still holding true to your likes and dislikes. Thanks for sharing.

Edited September 3, 2013 by drilltech1

[Pete Freedman]

Boo: What you have described here is, in essence, the major issue I have with the current wave of DCI design. a) The GE sheets say 'audience' engagement not 'judges' engagement (which I thing is great); b) If the judges need to be initially 'educated' on a show design, and then continuously 'educated' as to the morphing changes throughout the season, how the h*** is the general audience expected to be engaged unless they already intimately know the original source material or receive that same on-going 'education'?; and that leads me to c) Who in the general paying audience, outside of a few high-brow intellectually minded with a lot of spare time on their hands, will want to spend that amount of devotion to becoming 'educated' concerning a DCI performance? Which, contrary to popular belief by many in DCI, is just a form of entertainment by the majority of the paying audience and not that top of a priority if matters of life.

Stu, you're basically right, but there's something you keep putting into this argument that makes it seem wrong; this is the part I've bolded above.

Where you're right: Early in each season, someone (not necessarily DCI nor the corps) should produce a short cheat sheet on the meanings, implications and symbolism in those (few) shows that are not immediately accessible. Those spoiler docs should be available on the web in a predictable location. You're right that the current situation is a slap in the face to those who won't understand the show for various reasons. For example, it's a slap in the face of someone who never heard of the Rite of Spring to say in effect, "Don't worry your pretty little head about what it all means, just enjoy the mood and technique," when you could just say, "it's a pagan sacrificial death dance, out in the woods. The guard expresses demonic possession in various ways.before the inevitable sacrifice," and said audience member goes, "Oooh, OK," and has (I think) a huge improvement in enjoyment and involvement. Context is so important, ya know? Those in the know have a much better time than those who aren't.

Where you're wrong: It's easy to fix This doesn't require any significant amount of time in academia studying the themes of the work, as you imply. Just a succinct description of certain shows made available. I think it has to be a DCP function, not a DCI or BD (or whoever), simply because those organizations don't seem to want to get into that territory. So it has to be the DCP website writers, us forum goons, or someone like CorpsReps.

Now, since those in this forum will debate the meanings anyway, it does kind of make sense for DCP to host it in some way. Perhaps with just a sticky thread for each of the few corps affected, with the requirement that only discussions of the meaning of that corps show will be allowed. The OP updates the first post with a summary of the consensus points in the thread. If the corps doesn't like it, well they can go ahead and do their own.

[Michael Boo]

...

If the corps doesn't like it, well they can go ahead and do their own.

In a sense, that's what they did this year in supplying their own copy for the DCI souvenir program books. I suspect it's unlikely DCI would encourage the Internet dissemination of this material supplied by the corps as it could impact the sales of the program books to some degree.

[drilltech1]

In a sense, that's what they did this year in supplying their own copy for the DCI souvenir program books. I suspect it's unlikely DCI would encourage the Internet dissemination of this material supplied by the corps as it could impact the sales of the program books to some degree.

What if they made it available as an APP? $$$ ??? asks the one who still owns a rotary phone?

[Pete Freedman]

...

In your defense, kid, wherever you are... you did great. I initially thought that the narration was prerecorded too. Your delivery was consistently excellent, on par with what I'd expect from a professional stage performance. Seriously. I only wish that your talents had been utilized on the stage rather than the football field.

Well, I didn't know that was possible. Thanks for that.

...

Crown's design team should have left the narration on the chopping block. The show wouldn't have been any weaker, in my opinion. The "love story" would still have played out as a beautiful guard duet -- now with the audience's ears trained on the magnificent brass chorus rather than a single, amplified voice -- and the effectiveness of the rest of the (and I do hate to use this word) gimmicks would have remained equally strong, perhaps even more so. The unbelievably talented performers of Crown would have held the hearts of the audience in the palms of their hands even more so than they already did -- and they still would have won! The show was just that good.

Interesting. So your objection is not the same as that of the OP's that the subject isn't really about Einstein and is even disrespectful (my words), but just that the narration itself was overwhelming and unnecessary.

I do think they had to somehow convey the idea that love must have limits, because everything has limits, and then challenge that presumption. That's the role of the love story as I see it. However they could have shortened it by converting it to dialog. He would speak the male dialog while the guard member moves his lips, and one of the female speakers/singers does the same for the female guard member. I think all the essential elements are in the dialog itself, except the actual phrase "Impossible, you say?" But, that could be dialog too; he could actually say that to her. That might have been even more powerful. And maybe half the words.

[drilltech1]

However they could have shortened it by converting it to dialog. He would speak the male dialog while the guard member moves his lips, and one of the female speakers/singers does the same for the female guard member. I think all the essential elements are in the dialog itself, except the actual phrase "Impossible, you say?" But, that could be dialog too; he could actually say that to her. That might have been even more powerful. And maybe half the words.

Which is what will happen when some h.s. marching band rips it off to make it their own... (I know, usually it's the other way around...)

[skevinp]

I do think they had to somehow convey the idea that love must have limits

Perhaps they should have had John and his lover run towards each other and then crash into a major appliance.

[Stu]

Stu, you're basically right, but there's something you keep putting into this argument that makes it seem wrong; this is the part I've bolded above.

Where you're right: Early in each season, someone (not necessarily DCI nor the corps) should produce a short cheat sheet on the meanings, implications and symbolism in those (few) shows that are not immediately accessible. Those spoiler docs should be available on the web in a predictable location. You're right that the current situation is a slap in the face to those who won't understand the show for various reasons. For example, it's a slap in the face of someone who never heard of the Rite of Spring to say in effect, "Don't worry your pretty little head about what it all means, just enjoy the mood and technique," when you could just say, "it's a pagan sacrificial death dance, out in the woods. The guard expresses demonic possession in various ways.before the inevitable sacrifice," and said audience member goes, "Oooh, OK," and has (I think) a huge improvement in enjoyment and involvement. Context is so important, ya know? Those in the know have a much better time than those who aren't.

Where you're wrong: It's easy to fix This doesn't require any significant amount of time in academia studying the themes of the work, as you imply. Just a succinct description of certain shows made available. I think it has to be a DCP function, not a DCI or BD (or whoever), simply because those organizations don't seem to want to get into that territory. So it has to be the DCP website writers, us forum goons, or someone like CorpsReps.

Now, since those in this forum will debate the meanings anyway, it does kind of make sense for DCP to host it in some way. Perhaps with just a sticky thread for each of the few corps affected, with the requirement that only discussions of the meaning of that corps show will be allowed. The OP updates the first post with a summary of the consensus points in the thread. If the corps doesn't like it, well they can go ahead and do their own.

Pete: To some extent you are correct; some shows only need a short explanation (or even none at all). Angels and Demons was a 'simple' concept not complex; and with the source material, along with the music arranging being very accessible and understandable to the general audience, a show like that can be communicated in a short synopsis or even just in the title alone. However, in many cases in this modern era I do not think a very short one or two sentence explanation can suffice. Cabaret Voltaire, for example, was a show based on a rather obscure philosophically complex movement in a foreign country in which the majority of people were/are unaware ever happened; that, combined with experimental music arranging styles, required much 'education' of the judges and left the majority of the audience wondering aimlessly in the dark. Moreover, that concept could not be explained in a short one or two sentence synopsis; and That is where many show designers are missing the boat. The DCI 'audience' are those general Joe Schmoes who pay to be in the seats, not the musically and artistically educated General Effect judges who get paid to adjudicate; and through observation it can be deduced that the overwhelming majority of the paying audience do not want to be 'educated' on the finer aspects of progressing the philosophical art form via the re:Rite; they appear to want, again by observation, the raw emotion from staying rather close to the original source material of Firebird. And DCI needs to be very, very aware through observation as to what they, the majority of the audience desires, because they, the audience are paying to be entertained not educated.