Stu Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) I dont mind a debate with you SOMETIMES but IMO those are rediculous examples.....Im not saying Im for or against any of this BUT certainly in todays world there is a real concern and should not be ignored. There are many affected and their REALITY if it fits in some neat little package of scewed facts or not can not be ignored or . trivialized But there is no 'real concern' at all, anywhere in the entire United States, about drum corps and marching bands having performers toss and spin wooden rifle props and that relationship to gun crime. It is a 'fabricated perception' created bya select few who are over-reaching via political correctness. And my examples are to show that perception is 'not' reality but just somenthing which effects behavior. 'reality' is 'reality' and 'perception' is 'percption'. Edited October 9, 2013 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) But there is no 'real concern' at all, anywhere in the entire United States, about drum corps and marching bands having performers toss and spin wooden rifle props. It is a 'fabricated perception' created bya select few who are over-reaching via political correctness. how do you know this? I have taught coast to coast and although there hasnt been alot of talk there certainly has been some as well as some not wanting the traditional equipment at all. How can you claim this. As a matter of fact it's not just now when this subject has come up. More than 15 years ago I had some parents pull their kids out of a program for just this reason. Justified or not. I may not have agreed BUT who am I to tell them that their concern wasn't a vaild one for them Edited October 9, 2013 by GUARDLING 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 how do you know this? I have taught coast to coast and although there hasnt been alot of talk there certainly has been some as well as some not wanting the traditional equipment at all. How can you claim this This 'talk' you have encountered from some is nothing more than PC 'perception'. The facts, the data, show no correlation or cause/effect whatsoever between marching performers tossing wooden rifles and real crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) This 'talk' you have encountered from some is nothing more than PC 'perception'. The facts, the data, show no correlation or cause/effect whatsoever between marching performers tossing wooden rifles and real crime. that logic can be twisted however one wants..gezzz I can twist that argument in almost every tragedy we have seen nowadays...IMO its how people get a get out of jail card on those opinions...sorry again I will ask " How do you know this " you said no concern anywhere in the US...you seems to like just facts, so where are those facts. please enlighten me so I can bring that to the many many groups I encounter ..and their parents Edited October 9, 2013 by GUARDLING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) More than 15 years ago I had some parents pull their kids out of a program for just this reason. Justified or not. I may not have agreed BUT who am I to tell them that their concern wasn't a vaild one for them There is a huge difference between an individual decision made by parents, which you cite, and an institutionalized decision by a school administration effecting the entire student population which is a PC reaction to the 'perception' of a few based on their emotion not on facts. With one, the individual parents, they have the right to pretty much raise their child as they desire and we should stay silent except in cases of child endagerment inflected by the parent; however, the other, the institutional decisions, we as taxpayers and parents who have children in those schools have the right and duty to make our voices known just like those few who emotionally feel that band rifles are bad. Edited October 9, 2013 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 that logic can be twisted however one wants..gezzz I can twist that argument in almost every tragedy we have seen nowadays...IMO its how people get a get out of jail card on those opinions...sorry again I will ask " How do you know this " you said no concern anywhere in the US...you seems to like just facts, so where are those facts. please enlighten me so I can bring that to the many many groups I encounter ..and their parents You misquoted me; I did not say there was no concern, I said no 'real' concern; as in there is no coorilation or cause/effect whatsoever that can be shown which reveals marching performers spinning wooden rifles refelct or increases 'real' crime and thus it is a 'fabricated' concern in the name of placating political correctness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) You misquoted me; I did not say there was no concern, I said no 'real' concern; as in there is no coorilation or cause/effect whatsoever that can be shown which reveals marching performers spinning wooden rifles refelct or increases 'real' crime and thus it is a 'fabricated' concern in the name of placating political correctness. and I'll say again ..You dont know this..................but if it does or doesnt isnt the issue..what is the issue for WHATEVER REASON PC, hysteria, facts or no facts....it only takes 1 parent or 1 small movement to change it completely,,ok again this topic was exhausted a while ago and then came back so either it does mean something to some or should just go away again....Once more I will say I like the traditional equipment BUT guard people will spin anything and I think would get over it quick.......thanks for playin......lol Edited October 9, 2013 by GUARDLING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 and I'll say again ..You dont know this..................but if it does or doesnt isnt the issue..what is the issue for WHATEVER REASON PC, hysteria, facts or no facts....it only takes 1 parent or 1 small movement to change it completely Yes I do know this; there is no data anywhere which supports the 'perception' that spinning wooden rifles in a marching band or drum corps refelcts or increases gun crime. As for the 'one' parent being able to effeect the regulations for an entire school district: If one parent, or a very small group, says that schools promote youth sexuality via cheerleaders wearing short skirts, and the rest say 'bunk', you contend that one parent's or small groups emotional 'perception', without any supporting factual data, should be placated by the school administration thus eliminating the skirted uniform? Or, would that be a huge political correctness over-reaction by the district? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Yes I do know this; there is no data anywhere which supports the 'perception' that spinning wooden rifles in a marching band or drum corps refelcts or increases gun crime. As for the 'one' parent being able to effeect the regulations for an entire school district: If one parent, or a very small group, says that schools promote youth sexuality via cheerleaders wearing short skirts, and the rest say 'bunk', you contend that one parent's or small groups emotional 'perception', without any supporting factual data, should be placated by the school administration thus eliminating the skirted uniform? Or, would that be a huge political correctness over-reaction by the district? how do you know this....so theres no data that doesnt mean it doesnt exsist...its drum corps or band we barley get attention as it is let alone special data on us but..actually I have seen things like you said overturn a program...emotional perception is still perception..I guess youre just one of these people that believes in polls, data, which may or may not be factual.......sorry I am not....................and by the way PC is a way of life now in many things...like that or not....and thats a fact.....lol as a player in the activity winter fall and summer. I 'll teach spinning a broom if thats what it becomes...whatever! before we are told to get a room I will let someone else take over the conversation...thanks Stuie Edited October 9, 2013 by GUARDLING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 how do you know this....so theres no data that doesnt mean it doesnt exsist...its drum corps or band we barley get attention as it is let alone special data on us but..actually I have seen things like you said overturn a program...emotional perception is still perception..I guess youre just one of these people that believes in polls, data, which may or may not be factual.......sorry I am not....................and by the way PC is a way of life now in many things...like that or not....and thats a fact.....lol There is no data showing that there are aliens stored at Area 51, so the lack of that data proves they do actually exist and it is unreasonable for me to point out the lack of factual data to support my position. Nice illogical reasoning just like the illogical reasoning based on PC perception of a few. But, I will agree with you on this: it is a ‘fact’ that many school administrations are now kowtowing to the PC perception of a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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