Daave Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Yeah, that SteamPunk/Big Top Pee Wee thing in 2012 was a swing for the fences that was a weak pop up to third. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) =Now, 13th and 18th places are not "national contenders" placements, to be sure. But anyone with eyes and ears can see that the 2013 program was an advancement in design and instruction over 2012. Ditto 2014 over 2013. You disqualifed your own argument. The 2013 show, while fun, was more or less self-referential. It was about the history of the corps. Backwards-looking, in other words. And Brasso, you know that Troopers don't own the Cadets' members, right? And that Cadets' scoring this year is based on technical, rather than aesthetic, qualifications. Aesthetically, in fact, it doesn't really use much of the Copland "Lincoln Portrait" - most of it is original in concept. (Personal taste, but when I look at the actual United States of America, and compare it to the idealized versions that both Troopers and Cadets try to evoke, I can only think "are you f---ng kidding me? 40% of the country thinks that the President is a foreign-born socialist, and they don't believe in evolution. You can't fix that kind of ridiculous.") But hey, that's me. Edited July 25, 2014 by Slingerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) The 2013 show, while fun, was more or less self-referential. It was about the history of the corps. Backwards-looking, in other words. Yes, and the corps improved 5 placements. That was my point: "Going Americana" didn't hurt the competitive placement of the Troopers; it improved the competitive placement. Edited July 25, 2014 by 2muchcoffeeman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Yes, and the corps improved 5 placements. That was my point: "Going traditional" didn't hurt the competitive placement of the Troopers; it improved the competitive placement. To 13th. That and $2.50 will get you a ride on a New York subway car. I'd love to see Troopers reclaim their heritage and start kicking ### again. To do so, they'll have to stop trying to be "America's corps' and start being "the mean-### motherf___rs that are going to take you down." "America's Corps" clearly isn't working if "winning championships" is the goal. Edited July 25, 2014 by Slingerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 To 13th. That and $2.50 will get you a ride on a New York subway car. I'd love to see Troopers reclaim their heritage and start kicking ### again. To do so, they'll have to stop trying to be "America's corps' and start being "the mean-### motherf___rs that are going to take you down." I already acknowledged 18th and 13th aren't national-title placements. I don't, however, share your view that they are essentially worthless placements. More than half the drum-corps population lives below 10th place. I do share your hope for a return of Troopers swagger. But let's ask the fans in the stands, who are leaping to their feet this year, and did the same last year, whether they would like to see the corps abandon its current programming vision. Which isn't to say Americana must be the only path forward. But the Troopers throw away what has brought them to this point at their peril. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 But let's ask the fans in the stands, who are leaping to their feet this year, and did the same last year, whether they would like to see the corps abandon its current programming vision. I've seen Troopers live 4 times this year. No leaping from the stands was involved in any of those cases. That's not me downplaying anything; that's simple reportage. First step toward fixing your business/team, whatever, is acknowledging the current situation. And the current situation is that the Troopers are liked, but not feared. People want them to be a top corps again, but the product isn't there to do that. They need to start swinging for fences that are further away, in the hopes of making the program a final destination, rather than the corps you go to before you audition for Vanguard or Bluecoats or BD or whoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) And Brasso, you know that Troopers don't own the Cadets' members, right? And that Cadets' scoring this year is based on technical, rather than aesthetic, qualifications. Aesthetically, in fact, it doesn't really use much of the Copland "Lincoln Portrait" - most of it is original in concept. (Personal taste, but when I look at the actual United States of America, and compare it to the idealized versions that both Troopers and Cadets try to evoke, I can only think "are you f---ng kidding me? 40% of the country thinks that the President is a foreign-born socialist and doesn't believe in evolution!") But hey, that's me. The Troopers only hope of continued survival is the playing to the good angels in us.. the idealized, romanticized notion of America, its profound fundamental goodness of its people, despites its jaded and cynical politicians it unfortunately continues to elect from both out of touch political parties captive to monied lobbyists. The quick road to oblivion would be for The Troopers to lose their identity in a futile quest to become like " the others ". There is nothing wrong with their style, nor their patriotic themed shows. Most Americans, despite what the cynical press might tell you, are mostly decent, optimistic, America loving, freedom loving Patriots, who mind their own business and don't trouble anyone, even those they may not agree with. The LAST thing The Troopers need to adopt is a cynical, jaded, view of their fellow Americans... and a cynical America portrayal. Thats a road map to a quick oblivion for the Troopers. The Troopers placement " problems " are similar to all the other Corps. The potential marcher talent wants to go up the food chain. And nothing can stop that, no matter what the Troopers adopt stylistically for themselves show wise in the future that might not be the style of an idealized America themed shows they presently do, that works well for most national fans, but does not have the technical attributes, complexity and demand that the DCI judges and its current judging system currently rewards. Edited July 25, 2014 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) The Troopers only hope of continued survival is the playing to the good angels in us.. Then they're screwed. There are no "better angels" these days - as a nation, we can't agree as to whether unaccompanied 10 year old children from El Salvador sitting in border camps are threats to national security or not. Some of us believe that the best hope for 7 year olds going to school without fear of being gunned down... is to arm the 7 year olds. What the hell is worth celebrating in that mess? The REAL United States would be a more interesting topic; it includes a lot of music that doesn't sound like Copland or Elmer Bernstein western movie soundtracks. It's music whose composers are black and Hispanic and Asian - and they don't write in commonplace America lingo ffrom the turn of the last century. Again, to my CENTRAL point - when the Troopers were an actual threat to win, they were VITAL and CONTEMPORARY - not a sepia toned print of a Nebraska farm family from the 1880s. If they want to compete at the top levels again, they'll start reflecting the actual country, not some 1950s movie version of it. Edited July 25, 2014 by Slingerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daave Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Oh, please... you can name on one hand the times the Troopers, "were an actual threat to win" since DCI was formed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps8294 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 A show with a raw edge while still channeling the west? A spaghetti western show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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