CCorps Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The difference between viewpoints is that one is based on ivory tower academics while another is based on actual experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) it all depends what YOU want to call progressive. I think that word has nothing to do with this at all. If youre saying with less females will there always be a good ole boy club so to speak? Maybe. Are females, good ones offered positions of leadership, yes I have seen it more times than I can count . Even in the world of guard which is probably more female than male, males dominate the teaching and director positions. Funny though , I have taught many manyy females and if you ask them ( and I have ) they would rather be taught by males. I have asked this over and over through the years with mostly the same answer. SO , maybe,females also have a part in this lack of balance. It wouldn't be the 1st time females have thrown other females under the bus. Just ask some females , most will agree with that sad but true statement. I think what Brasso and maybe others are trying to find out is if there is a glass ceiling for women akin to what happens in the corporate world? Also, girls have historically been culturally conditioned to not be as aggressive in the work place. I know in the Computer Science World, there are very few women computer scientist with Ada Lovelace, the "founder of Scientific Computing" being one great exception. In computer science, we have very few females, but there is no doubt that they are not capable at science and math. They are very capable, but yet you do not find many of them in those fields. I find it fascinating that in the colorguard world, a "historically" female dominated activity, so few females would be in top leadership roles. Just one of those things that is a curiosity and possibly a parallel that says something about our great society more than the specific fields. Edited May 1, 2014 by jjeffeory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I think what Brasso and maybe others are trying to find out is if there is a glass ceiling for women akin to what happens in the corporate world? Also, girls have historically been culturally conditioned to not be as aggressive in the work place. I know in the Computer Science World, there are very few women computer scientist with Ada Lovelace, the "founder of Scientific Computing" being one great exception. In computer science, we have very few females, but there is no doubt that they are not capable at science and math. They are very capable, but yet you do not find many of them in those fields. I find it fascinating that in the colorguard world, a "historically" female dominated activity, so few females would be in top leadership roles. Just one of those things that is a curiosity and possibly a parallel that says something about our great society more than the specific fields. I think ( maybe I.m wrong , but don't think so ) Brasso is trying to make a point that the good ole boys are keeping the females from leadership roles. As i have said, I just think females are smarter when it comes to the headaches in this activity associated with any leadership roles. Of course there are many other reasons that go with that. Edited May 1, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCorps Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Brasso wants to create a social justice issue where none exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I think ( maybe I.m wrong , but don't think so ) Brasso is trying to make a point that the good ole boys are keeping the females from leadership roles. As i have said, I just think females are smarter when it comes to the headaches in this activity associated with any leadership roles. Of course there are many other reasons that go with that. Well, that's what happens in the Computer Science world too. Females want to major in those fields less frequently than other fields for some reason. Maybe they're just smarter than us dumb males? Edited May 2, 2014 by jjeffeory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Brasso wants to create a social justice issue where none exists. No. I have made no call for more women in positions of leadership positions in DCI. It exists in your mind alone. For context, I responded last week on another thread to a poster that claimed that DCI was not a " good ol boy network " For my reply to THAT, I utilized the facts of verifiable numbers of the lack of woman in positions of leadership in DCI. I made no request to create " social justice " in DCI. I even stated above the DCI will continue to be a " good ol boy network " as people here are telling us " woman don't want these jobs.". So I ended with the comment ( quote ) " so thats that ". So... you are completely wrong if you conclude from my remarks that I am taking up the banner for " Social Justice " in DCI. I merely made an assessment of " what is ", not " what should be ". So frankly you attempted to create a motivation, ie " a cause celebre " for me " where none exists" for me at all. Edited May 2, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) , maybe,females also have a part in this lack of balance. It wouldn't be the 1st time females have thrown other females under the bus. Ouch. This naturally implies that DCI has a problem with woman in positions of leadership in DCI because " females have thrown other females under the bus ". Thats a serious charge. Men don't throw other men under the bus ?... and every day of the week ? Do you have any idea how sexist this sounds ? If a man does not get iinto positions of leadership in organizations, do we routinely say.. as you just said here... that it was because another man " threw him under the bus " ? This is becoming an interesting topic as we can see.. as some very interesting ( and old and archaic thinking, imo ) comments are surfacing on here lately. Edited May 2, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Ouch. This naturally implies that DCI has a problem with woman in positions of leadership in DCI because " females have thrown other females under the bus ". Thats a serious charge. Men don't throw other men under the bus ?... and every day of the week ? Do you have any idea how sexist this sounds ? If a man does not get iinto positions of leadership in organizations, do we routinely say.. as you just said here... that another man " threw him under the bus " ? This is becoming an interesting topic as we can see.. as some very interesting comments are being made on here to say the least. it may sound sexist but it is fact. I really believe and have seen it dozens no hundreds of times and many females will admit it. Do men do this also? sure. Sexist , I am not at all, does it happen?...there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it does. Also I did not say DCI has a problem with this or that it is a main reason. I did say females could be contributing to the lack of balance BUT I also said many do not want these positions. I have seen it for decades over and over and there really is nothing that I have seen or heard to combat this theory.Which to me and my experience with it is not theory at all. and not a surprise to most I know involved. Edited May 2, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 it may sound sexist but it is fact. I really believe and have seen it dozens no hundreds of times and many females will admit it. Do men do this also? sure. Sexist , I am not at all, does it happen?...there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it does. Also I did not say DCI has a problem with this or that it is a main reason. I did say females could be contributing to the lack of balance BUT I also said many do not want these positions. I think "throwing people under the bus" is a human condition, not gender related, and it's pretty bad. I do acknowledge that it happens. Are you saying that women are more overt at doing this or that they do this more often than men? No need to answer as my goal isn't to stir up anything, but we gotta fix that as a society, and it's a cultural thing more than a gender thing, imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I think "throwing people under the bus" is a human condition, not gender related, and it's pretty bad. I do acknowledge that it happens. Are you saying that women are more overt at doing this or that they do this more often than men? No need to answer as my goal isn't to stir up anything, but we gotta fix that as a society, and it's a cultural thing more than a gender thing, imho. I will stick my neck out and have been told this millions of times and mostly by females..YES..as i said in another post , many , if not most females relate more to a male instructor. Is it right? of course not, is it valid that one is better than another ? NO! does it happen ? absolutely YES. I have had to literally fight for a female instructors I have hired and this was not by other staff, it was by members. This is from HS programs to drum corps. Believe it or not the HS kids were more of a problem with it than drum corps. Some may find this outrageous and that's fine. It's 30 plus years of experience ( continuous ) that I make these statements. Is it EVERY CASE? No of course not. MANY? yes! Edited May 2, 2014 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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