Drum Corps in Florida

[wallace]

This is my all-time favorite topic. As an active music educator in central Florida, one of my biggest personal frustrations has been watching DCI wither away in the Sunshine state.

Why can't the band directors get together to start something. You have the schools, the kids, the instruments. Combine your best students into a SoundSport team at first and see what happens.

Edited June 14, 2014 by wallace

[GUARDLING]

Why can't the band directors get together to start something. You have the schools, the kids, the instruments. Combine your best students into a SoundSport team at first and see what happens.

You assume that there are directors who would want to, Many drum corps people involved today from Florida are doing other corps BUT also have been through the rough years with several corps in Florida and arent going back to that again, I know this for sure. Also Randy posted his thoughts, and reasons, who better than a director of one of the Florida corps. Most all corps besides issues already mentioned had many many kids who never paid. This I have said many times here on DCP. Now this isnt just Florida BUT there has always been a crazy amount of this in summer as well as winter programs. There has been some very successful winter programs that have folded also , same reason. There has been corps taking these kids ,( talented kids ) although warned got burned to. One can say , well why let them get away with it, this is very true and maybe many directors cared a little to much about the kid and not enough about the harsh reality of business.

Money, Business, support,direction, coming through on promises are all needed for success and something many fell short on.

Corps in ANY state is no easy task and to sustain anywhere is a challenge which needs some pretty strong people willing to put themselves out there and risk alot in the process. We may all think, WHY NOT but not many willing to really put it all on the line or can't. I also speak from decades of experience on this very subject.

As far as corporations or a town sponsoring, WHY i ask,thats something tons or civic groups did BITD and can't and don't for the most part do this any more. WHY do you think there are so few corps now compared to then. Why do you think a corps like Crossmen from PA ,( NOW TEXAS) Cadets from NJ, ( NOW PA>)Boston who spends most of the time everywhere but for recruiting , MAdison, Etc Etc have to comb the country for members as well as support. The real successful corps financially found their own niche in the activity to survive and doing it somewhat well. They knew the hand out days were long over.

Now I'm not saying it can't be done but it's going to take a hell of a program and people to do it and a boat load of money...JMO

Edited June 14, 2014 by GUARDLING

[randyb]

All very valid points Guardling...... most of the directors in Florida decide to pursue other avenues AND don't necessarily want to go back to the trouble of trying to maintain a World Class level.

There were many other issues that arose during the years prior to Teal moving up to World Class besides the financial aspects.....the biggest one being was that the kid's who participated in Teal wanted to participate in a corps that toured all summer, not part of the summer as an Open Class drum corps.

The other biggest challenge........finding enough people to work(volunteer or little to no pay) at what can become a very tedious and stressful job of fundraising, development of a solid Board of Directors and constant oversight and management of the entire program. My hat is off to those at the top level for finding ways of doing this consistently over the years. I still feel that potential in the state of Florida is over the top from a membership and musicianship standpoint, however, without the proper resources, people and tools behind the actual field program, a drum corps in Florida will never be something that will last.

[GUARDLING]

All very valid points Guardling...... most of the directors in Florida decide to pursue other avenues AND don't necessarily want to go back to the trouble of trying to maintain a World Class level.

There were many other issues that arose during the years prior to Teal moving up to World Class besides the financial aspects.....the biggest one being was that the kid's who participated in Teal wanted to participate in a corps that toured all summer, not part of the summer as an Open Class drum corps.

The other biggest challenge........finding enough people to work(volunteer or little to no pay) at what can become a very tedious and stressful job of fundraising, development of a solid Board of Directors and constant oversight and management of the entire program. My hat is off to those at the top level for finding ways of doing this consistently over the years. I still feel that potential in the state of Florida is over the top from a membership and musicianship standpoint, however, without the proper resources, people and tools behind the actual field program, a drum corps in Florida will never be something that will last.

100% correct on ALL accounts.

.So many factors as you say.even at the smallest level

Edited June 14, 2014 by GUARDLING

[jwillis35]

Guardling and randyb make great arguments. So true.

As someone who regularly call bingo for the Canton, OH based Bluecoats organization, and having served on the BOD for 5 years until about 2 years ago when my job at school got too busy, I can tell you that it's never about finding the kids or the musical staff.

Perhaps with the exception of very remote states (which is why recruiting for the Troopers was always more difficult, and my hats off to Fred Morris who has turned the Troopers into an amazing place to go march again), most states in our country have excellent music education programs. Maybe they aren't as big as Texas or they don't have the high percentage of bands that march "corps style" like Indiana, but good talent can be found in most states. And if you present good talent with an opportunity to tour, perform in great venues, learn a fun and challenging show, and to work with excellent instructors, then I believe the kids will find you.

So will the staff. There are boat-loads of young, talented college grads, many who are former DCI marchers, who would love to venture into teaching and designing with a drum corps if the opportunity was there. But there are only 20+ World Class corps, and I'm not sure about Open Class...maybe 30 or so. The point is that only so many spots exist for staff and designers.

As everyone on here has mentioned, there is certainly plenty of talent in Florida. That's never been the question. I am sure there are plenty of excellent musicians and music teachers down there as well. The problem is with managing, funding, organizing, and facilitating a drum corps.

The most successful World Class corps do not have musicians running the show. Their Directors (or Executive Dir.) are usually business people. They are also usually well informed with the laws on running non profits. That position, in most cases, needs to be a full-time paid job. It needs to be someone in the community that interacts with local business, government and other civic leaders, and they must also work well with local band directors and music businesses. There is no doubt that this is easier in certain cities and much more difficult in others.

What happened with many of the corps that are no longer with us is that funding dried up. Why? In part because of bad management, in part because of circumstances beyong their control, in part because those managing the corps didn't take calculated risks to improve their financial situation before trying to "keep up with the Jones'," and in part because they these corps were nothing more than satelite members of their communities.

All the World Class corps that hold camps in Texas do so for the recruiting talent, but does this mean that each one of those locations in Texas could permanently host one of those corps year-round? Could those satelite locations become the new homes for BD or Bluecoats or Cavaliers? Maybe, but it's dicey. As a satelite location they don't have the over-head that the true home of the corps does. It's easy to go into a community 2 times a year for a quick weekend camp and/or some auditions. It's a whole different beast when you move in permanently and you need to find year-around storage for your trucks, equipment, instruments. You need to find a place to raise funds, perhaps a bingo hall or banquet center, and you need office space. You need to engraciate yourself with local band directors and musicians and music businesses, and you need local donors and local volunteers who help you with daily tasks.

If a corps is to ever sprout-up in Florida again, and truly be successful, they will first need the right manager who builds from the ground up, and who establishes such a strong local presence with volunteers, community, and local government, that it would actually take a lot to destroy the corps.

Edited June 14, 2014 by jwillis35

[BRASSO]

I think its entirrely realistic to be able to start up and sustain a DCI Open Class Corps in the state of Florida, with the understanding among all involved in it, that it will continue to be an Open Class level Corps, perhaps a limiting traveling OC Corps in DCI. Yes, this instantly might be a turn off to some potential marchers who want the potential of the World Class competing experience some day. But Florida is a large and populace state, and one that is expected to continue to grow rapidly in the coming decades. So its large enough to hatch and nurture a couple of Open Class DCI Corps.

But it becomes a whole new ballgame... and a challenging one, when a Corps has future DCI World Class Division competition designs. To compete now at the highest levels of the World Class Division it requires the ability to consistently raise each and every years a minimum of $500,000 and if you intend to compete at the upper levels of the Division, about 1 million. Thats a challenge that requires not only a highly competent management, but the infrasrtructure of many volunteers one can instantly call upon to make the effort work, along with deep pocketed financiers in place that are committed long term to the sustainability of the new start up Corps. It will also require, especially in the case of the state of Florida, the understanding that such a Corps will be traveling further than many others to compete at shows. Such a Corps will have few other World Class Division Corps near them. They will have to have their own DCI show to sponsor, but thats dicey because of distance their colleague Corps will have to travel to compete in Florida. All of these are challenges that can be overcome, but it sure would require lots of work to get it off the ground, and then sustained long term. DCI World Class is becoming more and more expensive now too, which makes the initial financial hurdles to overcome that much greater than even just a decade or so ago for such a start up operation with future grand designs of competing at the highest levels of DCI in future years.

Edited June 14, 2014 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

There has been a few DCA corps in Florida and according to a few of their directors it's the same issue. not enough shows to go to and a fortune to travel. Talking to Thunders director once it's exactly what he said ( also the money paying issue as usual )

Also as Randy said even in OC he was having many issues ling before Teal became WC..Florida is a challenge for many reasons and maybe more than a some other states BUT I think it's not just Florida its everywhere. Ive been there, summer and winter

Edited June 14, 2014 by GUARDLING

[GUARDLING]

Guardling and randyb make great arguments. So true.

As someone who regularly call bingo for the Canton, OH based Bluecoats organization, and having served on the BOD for 5 years until about 2 years ago when my job at school got too busy, I can tell you that it's never about finding the kids or the musical staff.

Perhaps with the exception of very remote states (which is why recruiting for the Troopers was always more difficult, and my hats off to Fred Morris who has turned the Troopers into an amazing place to go march again), most states in our country have excellent music education programs. Maybe they aren't as big as Texas or they don't have the high percentage of bands that march "corps style" like Indiana, but good talent can be found in most states. And if you present good talent with an opportunity to tour, perform in great venues, learn a fun and challenging show, and to work with excellent instructors, then I believe the kids will find you.

So will the staff. There are boat-loads of young, talented college grads, many who are former DCI marchers, who would love to venture into teaching and designing with a drum corps if the opportunity was there. But there are only 20+ World Class corps, and I'm not sure about Open Class...maybe 30 or so. The point is that only so many spots exist for staff and designers.

As everyone on here has mentioned, there is certainly plenty of talent in Florida. That's never been the question. I am sure there are plenty of excellent musicians and music teachers down there as well. The problem is with managing, funding, organizing, and facilitating a drum corps.

The most successful World Class corps do not have musicians running the show. Their Directors (or Executive Dir.) are usually business people. They are also usually well informed with the laws on running non profits. That position, in most cases, needs to be a full-time paid job. It needs to be someone in the community that interacts with local business, government and other civic leaders, and they must also work well with local band directors and music businesses. There is no doubt that this is easier in certain cities and much more difficult in others.

What happened with many of the corps that are no longer with us is that funding dried up. Why? In part because of bad management, in part because of circumstances beyong their control, in part because those managing the corps didn't take calculated risks to improve their financial situation before trying to "keep up with the Jones'," and in part because they these corps were nothing more than satelite members of their communities.

All the World Class corps that hold camps in Texas do so for the recruiting talent, but does this mean that each one of those locations in Texas could permanently host one of those corps year-round? Could those satelite locations become the new homes for BD or Bluecoats or Cavaliers? Maybe, but it's dicey. As a satelite location they don't have the over-head that the true home of the corps does. It's easy to go into a community 2 times a year for a quick weekend camp and/or some auditions. It's a whole different beast when you move in permanently and you need to find year-around storage for your trucks, equipment, instruments. You need to find a place to raise funds, perhaps a bingo hall or banquet center, and you need office space. You need to engraciate yourself with local band directors and musicians and music businesses, and you need local donors and local volunteers who help you with daily tasks.

If a corps is to ever sprout-up in Florida again, and truly be successful, they will first need the right manager who builds from the ground up, and who establishes such a strong local presence with volunteers, community, and local government, that it would actually take a lot to destroy the corps.

all very good and very true points. When MAgic was on its last leg their director went to many local governments and was hitting walls . I do know schools do not give anything any more there ( and most places ) I know a winter guard who spent more than 15 grand to use a school cafeteria for a Sat and Sun rehearsal for the fall and winter months.....alot. Schools got tough. I have seen more schools and civic centers left empty rather than have it used. MONEY MONEY MONEY. Florida is also ( like Ohio I imagine ) very spread out and different counties are almost like being in different countries. Even Disney who is very involved with MAgic Music days with bands pulled alot of drum corps support at one point.

Yes it can be done , I think it will take a Cook to come , endure and proceed. Like Randy B said , who really knows 1st hand, it will take way more than 1 person though. ALot more

Edited June 14, 2014 by GUARDLING

[randyb]

All of the what ifs, do thats, go to this place, talk to this person or group, plenty of interest, have business background people running program, etc........are all, pardon the cliche', "Fine and Dandy", until you actually get into the meat of the beast. Trust me, I've been there and done that both in the business world and in the drum corps world.......it takes more than talk and it takes a lot of hard work from many individuals. I can not tell you the amount of people that discussed starting another corps in Florida with me while I was with Teal. All of them thought their area was right for the picking. My common suggestion to all of them was very simple, why not, if you have the resources that you say you have, come together with what we had going on at Teal at the time and continue to grow and develop the current WC corps in Florida and make it THE FLORIDA CORPS for years to come. The response I was always given was we want to do our own thing.......I kind of looked at it as an ego thing actually.

We had many good people with Teal from 07 - 11 that tried very hard to build a solid foundation and we did have that base(or else DCI would not have approved us to compete at the WC level). I can't begin to tell you the hoops and ladders that the DCI Board put us through during a 3 year evaluation process. It was a great learning experience on both our parts and one which I think has made it even tougher for the current corps at both the WC level and OC levels to move forward with all the checks and balances that are now in place because of what we (and DCI) went through. We were the proverbial "guinea pig" for DCI....which at the time made no since to us at all considering the others that had moved up prior to us. But looking back, it was the best thing for all.

With all the above said, it really makes no difference who is heading up the program, who is on the Board or who the staff is.......what makes the most difference is finding the people that have the time, the dedication, the drive and the resources to a constant flow of cash to keep everything going on a day to day basis. Somebody once told me a long time ago that it's a fun and exciting thing when everything is new and moving forward and all are onboard......it becomes more difficult when you actually have to work and keep a certain level of consistency.........and then it becomes a job to keep it running year after year, meaning more and more people that you started with never really wanted it to be more than just a fun thing to do in the summer to begin with. Not trying to single any one person or persons out, but this holds true for most all of the corps that have come through and have been based in Florida over the past 30 or so years. If was as easy as everyone thinks it is........We would have a lot more corps throughout the country than we do today.

OK, enough of my soap box.....I can say that now I am happy to sit back, watch and enjoy drum corps for what makes it the most fun anyways....the kids....and in particular.....watching my kid, Kathryn, march her 1st season with Troopers!!!

[GUARDLING]

All of the what ifs, do thats, go to this place, talk to this person or group, plenty of interest, have business background people running program, etc........are all, pardon the cliche', "Fine and Dandy", until you actually get into the meat of the beast. Trust me, I've been there and done that both in the business world and in the drum corps world.......it takes more than talk and it takes a lot of hard work from many individuals. I can not tell you the amount of people that discussed starting another corps in Florida with me while I was with Teal. All of them thought their area was right for the picking. My common suggestion to all of them was very simple, why not, if you have the resources that you say you have, come together with what we had going on at Teal at the time and continue to grow and develop the current WC corps in Florida and make it THE FLORIDA CORPS for years to come. The response I was always given was we want to do our own thing.......I kind of looked at it as an ego thing actually.

We had many good people with Teal from 07 - 11 that tried very hard to build a solid foundation and we did have that base(or else DCI would not have approved us to compete at the WC level). I can't begin to tell you the hoops and ladders that the DCI Board put us through during a 3 year evaluation process. It was a great learning experience on both our parts and one which I think has made it even tougher for the current corps at both the WC level and OC levels to move forward with all the checks and balances that are now in place because of what we (and DCI) went through. We were the proverbial "guinea pig" for DCI....which at the time made no since to us at all considering the others that had moved up prior to us. But looking back, it was the best thing for all.

With all the above said, it really makes no difference who is heading up the program, who is on the Board or who the staff is.......what makes the most difference is finding the people that have the time, the dedication, the drive and the resources to a constant flow of cash to keep everything going on a day to day basis. Somebody once told me a long time ago that it's a fun and exciting thing when everything is new and moving forward and all are onboard......it becomes more difficult when you actually have to work and keep a certain level of consistency.........and then it becomes a job to keep it running year after year, meaning more and more people that you started with never really wanted it to be more than just a fun thing to do in the summer to begin with. Not trying to single any one person or persons out, but this holds true for most all of the corps that have come through and have been based in Florida over the past 30 or so years. If was as easy as everyone thinks it is........We would have a lot more corps throughout the country than we do today.

OK, enough of my soap box.....I can say that now I am happy to sit back, watch and enjoy drum corps for what makes it the most fun anyways....the kids....and in particular.....watching my kid, Kathryn, march her 1st season with Troopers!!!

well said and spoken from experience:

It always seems so easy to many UNTIL they try, even on the smallest level. So many factors