thirdcoast Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Funny read here imo. I usually just take what i need out of people's posts and leave the rest. I enjoy the banter, the heartfelt thoughts, the good and the bad from everyone. It has been awhile since I have added anything here, been very busy. Good to see that things have not changed much. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Clearly the question is intentionally vague, but one could divide it up into different questions: What drives member auditioning? What drives member excellence? What drives fan interest? What drives standing ovations? What drives volunteering? There may be multiple answers to each of these, and they may have some in common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Clearly the question is intentionally vague, but one could divide it up into different questions: Or the question was unintentionally vague, but no matter... What drives member auditioning? A financially solvent organization at which a member can audition and which deliver on the promises made to auditioning prospective members What drives member excellence? A financially solvent organization that can hone talent garnered by spending substantially on basic development of skills (be it school taxes, band dues, or private lessons) What drives fan interest? A financially solvent organization that can provide a tour, a digital platform, or a local financially solvent corps for the fans to witness What drives standing ovations? See number 2 above What drives volunteering? The desire and the time to assist an organization of interest by providing needed services free of charge. "I can do that." There may be multiple answers to each of these, and they may have some in common. There is only one thing all answers have in common, IMO, although you could also say that a common driver of all other answers is two legs, two arms, and a head full of talent, too, I suppose. Edited January 27, 2015 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Garfield, I agree that financial stability is a factor in each of those things, but I would say it is necessary but not sufficient. I would suggest another necessary but not sufficient element in each; excellence, or more specifically the perception of excellence. Excellence exists in two forms in drum corps; educational excellence and performance excellence, and they often overlap. When kids see other kids working that hard and playing that well all summer long, they get excited and want to be a part of it. When adults see kids improving that much - in both skills and attitude - over the summer, they want to volunteer their time. Fans love performance excellence, but I think there is a healthy dollop of support for educational excellence as well. Not enough, based on the turnout at OC shows, but still a significant amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Garfield, I agree that financial stability is a factor in each of those things, but I would say it is necessary but not sufficient. I would suggest another necessary but not sufficient element in each; excellence, or more specifically the perception of excellence. Excellence exists in two forms in drum corps; educational excellence and performance excellence, and they often overlap. When kids see other kids working that hard and playing that well all summer long, they get excited and want to be a part of it. When adults see kids improving that much - in both skills and attitude - over the summer, they want to volunteer their time. Fans love performance excellence, but I think there is a healthy dollop of support for educational excellence as well. Not enough, based on the turnout at OC shows, but still a significant amount. I'm sure you're right, Pete, and you get props for emphasizing the altruistic side of what's required to build momentum in a corps, or to build a corps for that matter. But all those good intentions and all that talent and all of those volunteers didn't help the Glassmen, Music City, the original Southwind or the numerous other corps that met their demise despite their enthusiasm and zeal. The money crippled them, in each and every case. In fact, I'd challenge anyone to show that any folded corps since Star collapsed for any reason other than finances. IMO, with that kind of compelling evidence, it's a hard case to make that anything other than money drives, especially, World Class. A quality organization can survive without zeal, enthusiasm, or even talent (for a while), but it needs money every, single year whether they have the other altruistic things or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) IMHO, in reference to finances, I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle... While the lack of a solid financial foundation will almost certainly drive a Drum Corps to eventual ruin, possession of a solid financial foundation will not, in and of itself, ensure eventual success. For that, the assorted other factors mentioned throughout the thread are equally, if not even more so, imperative. Leadership, education, training, successful recruiting, and a membership solidly based upon the commitment, desire, work ethic, and total dedication toward the end goals of whatever the specific Corps' ideals play that crucial role in achieving whatever it is that "success" means for each organization. Edited January 28, 2015 by HornTeacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm sure you're right, Pete, and you get props for emphasizing the altruistic side of what's required to build momentum in a corps, or to build a corps for that matter. But all those good intentions and all that talent and all of those volunteers didn't help the Glassmen, Music City, the original Southwind or the numerous other corps that met their demise despite their enthusiasm and zeal. The money crippled them, in each and every case. In fact, I'd challenge anyone to show that any folded corps since Star collapsed for any reason other than finances. IMO, with that kind of compelling evidence, it's a hard case to make that anything other than money drives, especially, World Class. A quality organization can survive without zeal, enthusiasm, or even talent (for a while), but it needs money every, single year whether they have the other altruistic things or not. My interpretation of "drives" in the OP does not mean necessary for survival, as you are interpreting it. By that standard, blood is an even more important driver of World Class drum corps. However, given the extreme correlation between budgets and placement discovered in the 990s thread (which is probably not the case with blood!), money is more than just a necessary ingredient that everybody has, it's a necessary ingredient that some have more than others and most don't have enough of. If a motor racing league didn't have enough oil to go around, then I would expect those with plenty of oil to do better, and a few might fail because they didn't have enough. But that still wouldn't make it the only key driver as you suggest money is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Here's a question: What drives DCI Open Class? What I mean is, what is the difference between OC and WC as far as raison d'etre? Is there any? What about between DCI and DCA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Here's a question: What drives DCI Open Class? What I mean is, what is the difference between OC and WC as far as raison d'etre? Is there any? What about between DCI and DCA? I think, and it's just my opinion and without specifics, it's all the same, DCI. WC and OC as well as DCA and maybe even WGI. There are many things , all which have been mentioned that keep a group going BUT it's the basic instinct we all had or have to achieve excellence, perform and human reaction to what we may have accomplished. Couple this with brother / sister hood, team as well as individual pride and desire is what drives most things. Now levels can be different in each group BUT, basics are basics....JMO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Garfield, I agree that financial stability is a factor in each of those things, but I would say it is necessary but not sufficient. I would suggest another necessary but not sufficient element in each; excellence, or more specifically the perception of excellence. Excellence exists in two forms in drum corps; educational excellence and performance excellence, and they often overlap. When kids see other kids working that hard and playing that well all summer long, they get excited and want to be a part of it. When adults see kids improving that much - in both skills and attitude - over the summer, they want to volunteer their time. Fans love performance excellence, but I think there is a healthy dollop of support for educational excellence as well. Not enough, based on the turnout at OC shows, but still a significant amount. it's all about the financials to get approved into World Class. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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