Kamarag Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Unfortunately, without specific information from either the western show hosts, DCI, or both, we're pretty much stuck speculating as to why full panels have been used in the West but not other regions. Ok, this is a complete guess on my part, but could it be that since west coast shows tend to be held in larger venues, the cost of a full panel becomes a much smaller percentage of the cost of holding the show? Could the larger crowds (and corresponding larger venue cost) minimize the cost of a full panel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Well,thinking people would then ask you :.. if the execution judges commentary has no value in the beginning of the competitive season, then why would such commentary be considered so valuable to some corps that they are apparently willing to foot the transportation costs to shuttle the judges out to the West Coast to have them judge the execution captions, and provide commentary ? How does this logic work then ? No clue. I haven't been on the west coast in a number of years. I can only speculate (as I did above) as to why it makes more sense for west coast shows to bring in a full panel. One other reason could be that California has a number of corps (particularly in Open Class) that do not attend championships, and there are enough of them that bringing in performance judges matters to them, considering their seasons end a month earlier (again, speculation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumbargleeful Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Hell, since we're all about conspiracies on DCP, what's to say there isn't a certain west coast group throwing a couple hundies out there to make sure they see a full panel and get a competitive advantage, compounded over time, compared to the other groups in dci's non-west tour models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMcomguy Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Yea, not so much. I spent years teaching and we were very much in favor of no performance judges before a certain date, for the reasons I outlined. I've bene there first hand, and talked to many other corps staff that feel the same way. It's far from "poppycock". Does that mean you never get a good early season performance tape? No, you certainly can...but they are rare, mostly because if the performance judge is telling you something yo already know in the first two weeks of the season, you're not doing your job. How long ago was "years teaching" that you had? The activity (and adjudication) has changed immensely over the past few years. I dare you to explain to Matt Harloff that those opportunities for feedback do not matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMcomguy Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Well, thinking people would then ask you :.. if the execution judges commentary has no value in the beginning of the competitive season, then why would such commentary be considered so valuable to some corps that they are apparently willing to foot the transportation costs to shuttle the judges out to the West Coast and then pay them to have them judge the execution captions, and provide these Corps their commentary ? How does this logic work then ? Ding ding ding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 How long ago was "years teaching" that you had? The activity (and adjudication) has changed immensely over the past few years. I dare you to explain to Matt Harloff that those opportunities for feedback do not matter. My last year teaching DCI was 2010. Ironically, it was Crown's brass staff that brought the topic up one time we were discussing it over adult beverages after an early season show... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMcomguy Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Hell, since we're all about conspiracies on DCP, what's to say there isn't a certain west coast group throwing a couple hundies out there to make sure they see a full panel and get a competitive advantage, compounded over time, compared to the other groups in dci's non-west tour models. This has nothing to do with any conspiracy. It's a valid question and fact presented that the West Coast shows generally are full panels more than 90% of the time, while others are not. Why should the practice of allowing show hosts with extra $$$$ the ability to decide the evaluation process be allowed? If we're "Marching Music's Major League", let's act like it. Would baseball hold a game with 2 umpires? Would the NFL say, well, we don't need a side or line judge tonight... unless the Patriots want to pay for it. If you're going to save money and go with limited panels, that's fine. Just even it out and do it for all the shows until "x" date or at least a Regional or something. There has to be a better way. There is too much at stake for an activity which relies on feedback as the primary tool for growth to not take this into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) There does not have to be a conspiracy theory at work here. Human nature being what it is, it is simply good public relations to support the efforts of judges that down the road will be judging you in shows. If West Coast Corps.. and their Show sponsors.. are supporting the costs of judges, and other geographical region based Corps are not, by contrast, I think I know human nature enough to know that in a close battle, the group that financially supports the judging community can't possibly be seen at a disadvantage in financially providing the judging community employment. This is not in the realm of conspiratorial fixing, and all that silliness we sometimes hear. Its principally the result of the workings of simple human nature, and knowing a little bit about how Humans naturally react to goodwill and financial support that comes their way or to their fellow colleagues in the biz. This stuff is, afterall, not rocket science here that we are dealing with. Edited June 28, 2015 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMcomguy Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 My last year teaching DCI was 2010. Ironically, it was Crown's brass staff that brought the topic up one time we were discussing it over adult beverages after an early season show... Then they were pretty drunk! Because that's not their stance sober, I can tell you that. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 This has nothing to do with any conspiracy. It's a valid question and fact presented that the West Coast shows generally are full panels more than 90% of the time, while others are not. While we disagree on the value of early season performance judge's commentary, I'm totally on board with your premise that it's unfair across regions. I'd love to see a rule implemented that makes it fair, if we're going to limit the panel in the early season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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