Suncoast Sound 1988

[Tad_MMA]

I can confirm that we did not like the 87 show at all. It wasn't that simple either...the original show that was announced and passed out was a bazillion times better, but was changed during the winter (I attended the first camp in November, and then decided not to march, but filled a hole the day after the premier show in June).

Incredibly cool group of people, staff and members. But an absolute dog of a program.

Karl Lowe oversaw the visual design, and served as color guard designer and caption head from 86-89. Mark Sylvester wrote the drill in 88 (Mike Raiford write the drill from 85-87, and Kevin Ford wrote it in 89).

What WAS the program supposed to be? I know SS revisited the Florida Suite in 1989, but it didn't have the talent or zazz of 1985 (gaaaahhhhh! BRILLIANT!).

Not to beat the horse, but the dramatic difference between the guards of 1987 and 1988 was unprecedented. Did Lowe "recruit" better or finally get the members to be a cohesive unit? The only other change like this I recall was Garfield's 9th place '88 guard that won in '89.

[BRASSO]

Audience make up change over the years too... particularly if the musical artists change. For example, the typical DCI Drum Corps audience of 1987 is far different than the typical DCI audience here in 2015. So what appeals to both can be far different as a result too.

Here is another perfect example of this :

In the early 1960's, Bob Dylan was a major figure in the Folk Music ( and Jazz ) scene in the US. He played a Folk Guitar. His large audience were attracted to that music, that guitar playing. However, at the tail end of the 60's, in the legendary Newport Rhode Island annual Jazz Concert there, he came on stage without the unplugged Folk Guitar, and instead utilized a Gibson, plugged in, electric Rock Guitar. That particular audience was not impressed. He lost that audience. For good. But he did over the years pick up a far different audience as he began to dabble in different music genres, from Bluegrass, to Rock, to Country. Today he is infatuated with the music of Frank Sinatra. His audiences makeup has dramatically changed over the years during his personal transformations. ( although he has never really come close to capturing his musical commercial success and magic of his protest, folk singing days with his unplugged, simple Folk Guitar ). His audience today that likes his Sinatra music tunes, would not really like his Country Music singing days of songs, just as the Folk Music fans of Dylan's early 60's would not find his foray into Rock Music in the 70's all that appealing to them. And so it is in Drum Corps. What appealed to the typical DCI Drum Corps audience of the 60's, 70's, 80's, typically does not appeal very much to the typical DCI audiences of today. And vice versa. This is naturally because, like Bob Dylan, Drum Corps has changed dramatically as well .As a matter of fact, I don't just speculate that this might be true regarding the typical DCI audiences taste in music ( and marching ) , I believe with a level certainty of it to be true, as I've sat beside both audiences over the decades to have witnessed and experienced it.

Edited November 9, 2015 by BRASSO

[Tobias]

After their masterful 1986 finals performance, My Fair Lady was a musical letdown. Granted, Stan Kenton is very hard to get across to the masses, but brass and percussion were the absolute best in their corps history. Heck, they went on with FIVE corps to go and still won field brass (9.9/10) over BD & SCV ---both had incredible lines that year.

I'm still looking for the Color Guard caption head and staff!

They were a force for a few years. I was like all of a sudden I was blown away by this horn line. They had such beautiful blend and balance.

[Kamarag]

I never doubted, nor challenged, the veracity that perhaps some ( or even all ) of marchers "did not like the '87 show". My comment was my assessment that many Drum Corps fans in 1987 loved the '1987 show.

Well, if they did, they sure weren't in the stands at any show the corps performed at. Polite applause was the order of the day all year long for the most part, especially in contrast to the previous few years (that I was also on the field for).

Edited November 9, 2015 by Kamarag

[Kamarag]

What WAS the program supposed to be? I know SS revisited the Florida Suite in 1989, but it didn't have the talent or zazz of 1985 (gaaaahhhhh! BRILLIANT!).

Not to beat the horse, but the dramatic difference between the guards of 1987 and 1988 was unprecedented. Did Lowe "recruit" better or finally get the members to be a cohesive unit? The only other change like this I recall was Garfield's 9th place '88 guard that won in '89.

Ok, here's the story as I remember it...and anyone else who was there is invited to correct me if I get any of this wrong...

The morning of finals in 1986, it was announced to the corps that 1987 would be a very special year. Taking further advantage of the Circle K sponsorship, the corps would one again do the early season California tour before flying to England for a week, attending the Queen's Festival (or whatever it was called), before returning for the end of tour. The show would be another Stan Kenton program, but even more amped up.

Recruiting was off the charts, and the first camp weekend was incredible...the opener was passed out, a Robert Smith take on Kenton's "Artistry in Rythm." That chart had more notes than I'd ever seen on a contra part in my life, before or since. It was bananas. The sound of the brass line at that November camp was something like June sounded like in 1985 and 1986...and I'm not joking.

Sometime between the November camp and January, the Circle K sponsorship was lost (due to circumstances that have been covered in other threads). As a result, the California and England trips were off the table, and there was a real question as to if the corps would even field at all. The vast majority of members, new and veteran (including me), bailed. To the credit of new director Kim Lloyd and the instructional staff, they managed to keep a core group of members to get through the winter, despite rumors to the contrary. Obvioulsy the decision was made to change the program, making it substantially easier. I didn't have any contact with the corps or many friends still marching until the premier show.

They had one contra hole, which I filled the next day right before we went on the road. You might have seen the picture floating around of the bus with the sign "No, we did not fold" in the window.

The "My Fair Lady...Our Way" program wasn't terrible, it just didn't resonate with the membership or audiences. How could it, after The previous four years? Regardless, of all of the years i've marched or taught, that summer was one of the most fun, due to the amazing group of members and staff. We had a blast, even if the show wasn't that great (Spirit should have beaten us at finals, fwiw).

Edited November 9, 2015 by Kamarag

[BRASSO]

Well, if they did, they sure weren't in the stands at any show the corps performed at. Polite applause was the order of the day all year long for the most part, especially in contrast to the previous few years (that I was also on the field for).

Sure they were. Fan Network would have been able to convincingly show to all that positive audience response to that '87 show as well.... and even compare and contrast that to the '88 show's audience response, where the talent level was better in that '88 Corps. But alas, we don't have that visible evidence to show the audience response like this anymore. Its just one more reason to miss Fan Network DCI archives, imo.

I recall a DCP poster on here 2 years ago ( not you ) that tried to tell us that '93 Star of Indiana was ( his words ) " loudly booed at Finals after the completion of their '93 performance ". I knew that to be a crok, as I was there in Jackson, Miss. for that Finals, and heard no such thing. I went to the Fan Network, played the Finals performance to the end 2 years ago. While the editing stops pretty close to the final conclusion of the show, its still quite clear there is no booing heard with their performance at the end. Yet, thru revisionist history, a few have attempted to ( and perhaps successfully ) established that false narrative as somehow true... when its not true at all. But unfortunately, false narratives can sometimes take on a life of their own, if told enough times.

Edited November 9, 2015 by BRASSO

[Tad_MMA]

Ok, here's the story as I remember it...and anyone else who was there is invited to correct me if I get any of this wrong...

The morning of finals in 1986, it was announced to the corps that 1987 would be a very special year. Taking further advantage of the Circle K sponsorship, the corps would one again do the early season California tour before flying to England for a week, attending the Queen's Festival (or whatever it was called), before returning for the end of tour. The show would be another Stan Kenton program, but even more amped up.

Recruiting was off the charts, and the first camp weekend was incredible...the opener was passed out, a Robert Smith take on Kenton's "Artistry in Rythm." That chart had more notes than I'd ever seen on a contra part in my life, before or since. It was bananas. The sound of the brass line at that November camp was something like June sounded like in 1985 and 1986...and I'm not joking.

Sometime between the November camp and January, the Circle K sponsorship was lost (due to circumstances that have been covered in other threads). As a result, the California and England trips were off the table, and there was a real question as to if the corps would even field at all. The vast majority of members, new and veteran (including me), bailed. To the credit of new director Kim Lloyd and the instructional staff, they managed to keep a core group of members to get through the winter, despite rumors to the contrary. Obvioulsy the decision was made to change the program, making it substantially easier. I didn't have any contact with the corps or many friends still marching until the premier show.

They had one contra hole, which I filled the next day right before we went on the road. You might have seen the picture floating around of the bus with the sign "No, we did not fold" in the window.

The "My Fair Lady...Our Way" program wasn't terrible, it just didn't resonate with the membership or audiences. How could it, after The previous four years? Regardless, of all of the years i've marched or taught, that summer was one of the most fun, due to the amazing group of members and staff. We had a blast, even if the show wasn't that great (Spirit should have beaten us at finals, fwiw).

VERY informative! Thank you!!! But no, Spirit was icky that year. Their color guard kept them in 10th (guard was not part of the 100 pts other than GE until 2000). They're lucky the Bluecoats were sloppy Finals night.

[BRASSO]

The "My Fair Lady...Our Way" program wasn't terrible, it just didn't resonate with the membership or audiences

Well, we just disagree on this then, thats all. I am in no position to comment one way or the other on what the MM's think of their show ( but I do know that its likely impossible to get 135 members in ANY Corps, in ANY show, in ANY year, to all agree on whether they all liked or disliked a show given to them by adults. That said, I accept ( as stated twice now ) to accept without challenge your telling us that the marchers of Suncoast Sound did not particularly care for their '87 show given to them by their adults in charge there. But I'm not prepared to alter my 1st hand audience perceptions of that '87 show, as it does not square at all with my perceptions of the audience reactions to it back in '87. We just civilly and respectfully disagree re. the audience reaction to " My Fair Lady " showtheme production by Suncoast Sound in 1987.

Finally, the DCI judges liked the '87 " My Fair Lady " show and its execution within its peer group ( 5th-10th, from '83 to '89 ) too. As you are of course aware, this Suncoast Sound '87 show in question finished 9th, higher in placement than the '88 Suncoast Sound production we are discussing today did ( 10th). That said, it is oftentimes true that MM's ( and audiences ) like and enjoy a show better than the DCI judges do. That was as much true in the 70's, 80's, as it is true today.

Edited November 9, 2015 by BRASSO

[George Dixon]

Sure they were. Fan Network would have been able to convincingly show to all that positive audience response to that '87 show as well.... and even compare and contrast that to the '88 show's audience response, where the talent level was better in that '88 Corps. But alas, we don't have that visible evidence to show the audience response like this anymore. Its just one more reason to miss Fan Network DCI archives, imo.

I recall a DCP poster on here 2 years ago ( not you ) that tried to tell us that '93 Star of Indiana was ( his words ) " loudly booed at Finals after the completion of their '93 performance ". I knew that to be a crok, as I was there in Jackson, Miss. for that Finals, and heard no such thing. I went to the Fan Network, played the Finals performance to the end 2 years ago. While the editing stops pretty close to the final conclusion of the show, its still quite clear there is no booing heard with their performance at the end. Yet, thru revisionist history, a few have attempted to ( and perhaps successfully ) established that false narrative as somehow true... when its not true at all. But unfortunately, false narratives can sometimes take on a life of their own, if told enough times.

Someone said star was loudly booed in Jackson at finals? Who, where, when?

Personally I saw Suncoast many times the two years in question. I remember a polite reception in 87 but it was pretty boring. 88 = loved it!

[Kamarag]

Well, we just disagree on this then, thats all. I am in no position to comment one way or the other on what the MM's think of their show ( but I do know that its likely impossible to get 135 members in ANY Corps, in ANY show, in ANY year, to all agree on whether they all liked or disliked a show given to them by adults. That said, I accept ( as stated twice now ) to accept without challenge your telling us that the marchers of Suncoast Sound did not particularly care for their '87 show given to them by their adults in charge there. But I'm not prepared to alter my 1st hand audience perceptions of that '87 show, as it does not square at all with my perceptions of the audience reactions to it back in '87. We just civilly and respectfully disagree re. the audience reaction to " My Fair Lady " showtheme production by Suncoast Sound in 1987.

Finally, the DCI judges liked the '87 " My Fair Lady " show and its execution within its peer group ( 5th-10th, from '83 to '89 ) too. As you are of course aware, this Suncoast Sound '87 show in question finished 9th, higher in placement than the '88 Suncoast Sound production we are discussing today did ( 10th). That said, it is oftentimes true that MM's ( and audiences ) like and enjoy a show better than the DCI judges do. That was as much true in the 70's, 80's, as it is true today.

Well, I was in a pretty good position to analyse audience response about 30 or so times that summer, which trumps you watching the fan network's finals coverage (at night where everyone got good response, I might at). Also, a judge liking a show and objectively evaluating it are two totally different things (I've spent a lot of time judging, but your mileage may vary).