ouooga Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 Seriously, can someone please explain to me without getting angry why there's a belief that going from East to West is more expensive and includes fewer shows than from going West to East? Once you get past the Rockies, it's not a wasteland out here with random populated pockets. You have cities the whole way, literally millions of people, gas stations and truck stops, marching band programs in every city you pass through, and there's already shows out here. Yes, the Southwest is a desert, but it's a populated desert. But maybe there's something I'm missing..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Seriously, can someone please explain to me without getting angry why there's a belief that going from East to West is more expensive and includes fewer shows than from going West to East? Once you get past the Rockies, it's not a wasteland out here with random populated pockets. You have cities the whole way, literally millions of people, gas stations and truck stops, marching band programs in every city you pass through, and there's already shows out here. Yes, the Southwest is a desert, but it's a populated desert. But maybe there's something I'm missing..... Is it so hard to understand that moving 18 corps from the midwest/east to the west is more expensive than moving four corps from the west to the midwest/east? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Seriously, can someone please explain to me without getting angry why there's a belief that going from East to West is more expensive and includes fewer shows than from going West to East? Once you get past the Rockies, it's not a wasteland out here with random populated pockets. You have cities the whole way, literally millions of people, gas stations and truck stops, marching band programs in every city you pass through, and there's already shows out here. Yes, the Southwest is a desert, but it's a populated desert. But maybe there's something I'm missing..... Now, if you want to make the case that there is as much potential revenue going east to west as there is going west to east, that's a different metric that you didn't ask. Considering the "home court advantage" of most midwest/east shows, and considering the closer driving distance for fans to enjoy them, I would challenge the notion that total attendance potential in a west cost tour is the same (or even close to) the revenue potential in the midwest/east. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Wait, this topic is brought up every year? You're saying this isn't an original idea and clearly there's a demand for it? Interesting. Look, you're right, I get it. Logistics make it hard to deliver the product to a wanting audience, and that's plenty of reason to quit. Besides, the current business model works, and if it's not broke, why fix it? Even if market conditions, audience availability, and general demand clearly warrant the business opportunity, it makes more sense to continue to do what's already being done. Great business strategy there Blockbuster. -Netflix Just because it "is" doesn't mean it "has to be." For God's sake, would someone formulate a variation on the traveling salesman problem to make a solid argument? If you guys read the threads I posted, there was a very reasonable and thoughtful discussion in both threads. And nothing has changed to alter any of the conclusions. In the end, people and corps are where they are. The costs and budgets for people and corps traveling are what they are. There's no magical thinking that's going to make a West Coast finals happens more than once every 10 years or so. And there's no magical solution to get all the corps to regularly come out west. You guys are free to kick this around all you want. But geography is real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 You west coast complainers need to grow more corps to fill out your own shows instead of demanding that midwest/east coast corps come out to fill out your show schedules. We already outnumber everyone else! World Class: West Coast, 9 corps. Midwest, 8 corps. East Coast, 5 corps. Open Class: West Coast, 10 corps. Midwest, 6 corps. East Coast, 6 corps. Wow, I hadn't done the math on Open Class until this. So for those who are anti West Coast, looking at the whole of drum corps, you're saying it's absurd to bring 25 corps to one side of the Rockies on some years (which is actually quite more than any of the west coast folks are asking), but completely acceptable to bring 19 corps to the other side of the Rockies literally every year. Please please tell me none of you people are also in charge of spending my tax money.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newseditor44 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I would argue that the number of California shows has decreased in recent years. DCI got a huge reception when the World Championships visited Pasadena in 2007, but arguably their deal with Indy has put a halt to that. There are a lot of factors involved with changing the tour - these shows are often contracted and booked several years in advance, and as we've seen that's not always a guarantee that the show will happen. Dan and his team know how important California is to DCI, and I'm sure this is something that has been talked about at great length for years. I'm sure of they find the opportunity for late season shows, they would jump at it, and maybe the new stadium in Los Angeles will provide just that. That's not a good point to argue on because California is huge. It is (very roughly) the size of the entire eastern seaboard (call it Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey, Delaware, Long Island, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia) plus Florida. Also, flights from California to Indianapolis are not appreciably longer or more expensive than flights from (say) Orlando or New York or Houston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 Is it so hard to understand that moving 18 corps from the midwest/east to the west is more expensive than moving four corps from the west to the midwest/east? I'm not sure you understand what the West Coast is asking for. Follow me on this. Start in San Antonio, put everyone in the same place. The show ends, it's Saturday night. Every single corps is going to be traveling to another show one week later. If that show is in Atlanta, literally every single world class corps is going to travel just under 1,000 miles. If that show is in Phoenix, literally every single world class corps is going to travel just under 1,000 miles. How do you possibly think the cost is so outrageously different between these two scenarios? The literal only difference between these two models is that Atlanta doesn't get to see all of the corps that season. If that bothers you, congratulations, you now know what it's like to be a drum corps fan living on Pacific Time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 We already outnumber everyone else! World Class: West Coast, 9 corps. Midwest, 8 corps. East Coast, 5 corps. Open Class: West Coast, 10 corps. Midwest, 6 corps. East Coast, 6 corps. Wow, I hadn't done the math on Open Class until this. So for those who are anti West Coast, looking at the whole of drum corps, you're saying it's absurd to bring 25 corps to one side of the Rockies on some years (which is actually quite more than any of the west coast folks are asking), but completely acceptable to bring 19 corps to the other side of the Rockies literally every year. Please please tell me none of you people are also in charge of spending my tax money.... Dood! Stop with the "anti-west coasters" jingoism, will ya'? You're dreaming. And are you kidding? If my state had your tax revenue I could send both of my kids to college for free! Really, you're ridiculousness will prevent serious discussion, and you're claim that "people" are anti-west coast should actually be stated that corps don't find the value in making the trip. Period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 If you guys read the threads I posted, there was a very reasonable and thoughtful discussion in both threads. And nothing has changed to alter any of the conclusions. In the end, people and corps are where they are. The costs and budgets for people and corps traveling are what they are. There's no magical thinking that's going to make a West Coast finals happens more than once every 10 years or so. And there's no magical solution to get all the corps to regularly come out west. You guys are free to kick this around all you want. But geography is real. Sigh. We don't want Finals. I mean, that'd be cool, but that's not the argument. We want a late season show with an actual variety of drum corps. At best, you could argue that DCI completely ignores the West Coast, and we basically just have a pre-game before the real party even starts, and every once in a while BK and one of their friends decides to crack a beer with us too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I'm not sure you understand what the West Coast is asking for. Follow me on this. Start in San Antonio, put everyone in the same place. The show ends, it's Saturday night. Every single corps is going to be traveling to another show one week later. If that show is in Atlanta, literally every single world class corps is going to travel just under 1,000 miles. If that show is in Phoenix, literally every single world class corps is going to travel just under 1,000 miles. How do you possibly think the cost is so outrageously different between these two scenarios? The literal only difference between these two models is that Atlanta doesn't get to see all of the corps that season. If that bothers you, congratulations, you now know what it's like to be a drum corps fan living on Pacific Time. OMG, you are completely irrational and way too emotional about this subject to consider it logically in a business-like manner. I didn't go to Atlanta this year. I did, however, go to Pasadena and Oceanside. Please. Stop. You're not making sense and you're "outrageous" argument does not make business sense. If it did, you'd have your wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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