JKT90 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 18 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: if you need 25 yards, are you going to send your fullback up the middle to gain 20 of those yards, or have 5 receivers that give an array of options to pick up most of the yards you need? Ok. I get what you're saying. But lots of variables re football. What's the score, field position, how good is my punter, defense, etc. Sometimes running it up the middle is the best call, run more clock, force a timeout etc. but, yeah ok I get it. Not to Nick pick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, N.E. Brigand said: I recognize that I'm not doing enough education and public relations. Stop!!! Stop right there!!! NE, again I love ya, but if you fail to see the problem here, that in of itself is even a deeper problem 'for the spectators'. They are not your students, they have no desire, not one iota, to be 'educated' by any communication of art edification and public relations concerning the progression of your craft. Many if them went to college and have already taken music and art appreciation courses as electives to get that type of boredom. They pay the big bucks at DCI shows to get 'entertained', period, end of story!!! Educate the youth performers to your hearts content, but get that audience, who really pays the bills, to tapping toes, snapping fingers, swinging, singing, and throwing those babies!!! Edited July 25, 2017 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKT90 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 By the way, we have a former brass arranger and dci judge on here whose opinion is BD is being over scored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesman Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) On 7/11/2017 at 9:13 AM, cowtown said: My opinion, BD couldn’t win as much as they wanted to under run and gun (90-2006) so they come up with something new. If you think back to the great drills or even watch ‘best of drill’ YouTube, not much from BD other than a few moments. On the 2006 DVD corps commentary their staff (I forget who) is whining and complaining they didn’t get enough credit for their drill. So they get 2007 out of the way as an anniversary show, it was very curvilinear with not a lot of defined forms, a weak drill compared to Cadets 2007 and in 2008 they make the change. The staging was a product of their running, high velocity drill in 2008 which they couldn’t clean. A good example is their opener, the big dot thing. They got full credit for it on the sheets so did more of it in 2009 including a 256 bpm crab step. To make 2009 visually effective, they watered the horn book, perhaps the weakest brass book content to win in the past 20 years. It worked. Cavies set the stage for sacrificing their horn line for visuals (but mainly performance) in the early 90s for a win so why not? Also in 2008, BD added a lot of body movement visual, partly as a response to Crown but also to push the Absurd show theme. 2010 was their FU to the fans but it allowed them some freedom to develop their visual style which was smoke and mirrors as up close at finals (I was in row 4) you noticed a lot of the stuff in the mirrors didn’t work, some did but much was played as if it did work knowing most couldn’t catch the details, and again, they got full credit. 2011 they went fan friendly and really perfected their visual style, one of their best marching corps ever. They hit this diagonal on the front hash that was text book, ever so clean, shame they supported a lot of the shows visuals guiding off of and lining up on props. Props greatly support this staging drill, an accept cheat and distraction, justification So as the winner goes, DCI goes…and it was time for a shift, Cavies had played out their thing for the most part but for fun, watch Mad World overhead dome came from ATL and compared it to BD 2010 and see the disconnect in reward I’m just pointing this stuff out as I watched it unfold and have been around, not a hater more a student of the game And then the politics at the time, G7 Very well said. I think some of the complaints about Blue Devils is because in the rare event that they produce a lackluster or weak program they still get scores that keep in the medals if not winning. The 2013 Re-rite of Spring show comes to mind. The show was a mess both musically and visually. If it had been any other corps they would have been lucky to have made the top 5. The Blue Devils are an incredible drum corps and I would never suggest otherwise. But even the greatest sluggers in baseball strike out sometimes. Edited July 25, 2017 by bluesman grammar 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: if it's 2nd and 25 in football, do you run up the gut or do you go with 5 wideouts to give yourself options to pick up more yards? a) why not ask fullbacks from Larry Csonka to Mike Tolbert who have done that very thing!!! And then get back with us. b) a person does not need a tutorial understanding of the rules in the NFL to be entertained by the play on the field, yet it is becoming more and more so to enjoy the DCI play on that same very field! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, Stu said: b) a person does not need a tutorial understanding of the rules in the NFL to be entertained by the play on the field, yet it is becoming more and more so to enjoy the DCI play on that same very field! When's the last time you've watched the NFL? Im a big football fan, but to someone who doesn't know the sport, they see a short play with big breaks in between (because come on, how many offenses are no-huddle nowadays), tons of commercials, arbitrary holding penalties, and penalties that heavily favor offense over the defense. Doesn't make for a very pretty product at all. Even I get tired of it sometimes now Just saying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Cappybara said: When's the last time you've watched the NFL? Im a big football fan, but to someone who doesn't know the sport, they see a short play with big breaks in between (because come on, how many offenses are no-huddle nowadays), tons of commercials, arbitrary holding penalties, and penalties that heavily favor offense over the defense. Doesn't make for a very pretty product at all. Even I get tired of it sometimes now Just saying. Since I know a lot about football let's take hockey. I love going to live games, I mean love it; and have even attended a few Stanley Cup matches. And I have had someone try to tell me about up plays, rim plays, wheel, etc... But I really do not care, I am entertained by the game without needing to understand the nuances of the play formations. And I chose that word for a reason, because those sitting in the stands at a DCI show should not have to become edified on the artistic underlying meaning of movement as it apples to the communication based on the adjudication sheet in order to be entertained and enjoy the formation performed by a corps. Now I may have a deeper understanding of hockey if I educate myself, and a typical DCI fan may do the same if they study the adjudication sheets, but we are there for shear entertrainnent by the action not education on the finer aspects of the art forms. Edited July 25, 2017 by Stu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, Stu said: Since I know a lot about football let's take hockey. I love going to live games, I mean love it; and have even attended a few Stanley Cup matches. And I have had someone try to tell me about up plays, rim plays, wheel, etc... But I really do not care, I am entertained by the game without needing to understand the nuances of the play formations. And I chose that word for a reason, because those sitting in the stands at a DCI show should not have to become edified on the artistic underlying meaning of movement as it apples to the communication based on the adjudication sheet in order to be entertained and enjoy the formation performed by a corps. Now I may have a deeper understanding of hockey if I educate myself, and a typical DCI fan may do the same if they study the adjudication sheets, but we are there for shear entertrainnent by the action not education on the finer aspects of the art forms. Okay that's fine, I was just saying that Football is an extremely poor example to use for the point you're trying to make. It is not a friendly sport for the layman. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Cappybara said: Okay that's fine, I was just saying that Football is an extremely poor example to use for the point you're trying to make. It is not a friendly sport for the layman. It actually is a great sport for a lay person. My wife for example doesn't know a sweep from a trap, or a flee flicker from a nose picker, uh, nose tackle. Yet she knows how simple of a concept it really is; get the ball across the endzone, hopefully without killing someone, and when time runs out the team with the most points wins... but she has figured out quarterback sneaks on her own. She derives entertainment in the action, the ball almost getting across the line but not quite, and the occasional snipe at me when she says, "Now that is some eye candy!". Sure I am enjoying the nuances, but she is also being entertained. Now place that in the context of say a high school 'concert band' contest. Where they play the most obscure music known to humans. The only ones getting the artistic nuances are the judges at a dimly lit table in the back of the auditorium. And the two parents, the only others in the audience, are there to support their kids, but they are going, "Huh?" at the squeeks, rattles, hums, and other sounds coming from the ensemble. They realize it is high quality, it has to be because the judges just gave the ensemble straight ones. But they really do not care to spend time in score study, in tutorial class learning bout what the judges are listening for. They just know they have not been entertained; and unless they were supporting their kids, they would much rather have been at the Tower of Power gig going on across town. And that is what I am talking about as it applies to the artistic educational direction as opposed to the entertainment direction DCI has been going in for quite a while. Edited July 25, 2017 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 21 minutes ago, Stu said: It actually is a great sport for a lay person. My wife for example doesn't know a sweep from a trap, or a flee flicker from a nose picker, uh, nose tackle. Yet she knows how simple of a concept it really is; get the ball across the endzone, hopefully without killing someone, and when time runs out the team with the most points wins... but she has figured out quarterback sneaks on her own. She derives entertainment in the action, the ball almost getting across the line but not quite, and the occasional snipe at me when she says, "Now that is some eye candy!". Sure I am enjoying the nuances, but she is also being entertained. Now place that in the context of say a high school 'concert band' contest. Where they play the most obscure music known to humans. The only ones getting the artistic nuances are the judges at a dimly lit table in the back of the auditorium. And the two parents, the only others in the audience, are there to support their kids, but they are going, "Huh?" at the squeeks, rattles, hums, and other sounds coming from the ensemble. They realize it is high quality, it has to be because the judges just gave the ensemble straight ones. But they really do not care to spend time in score study, in tutorial class learning bout what the judges are listening for. They just know they have not been entertained; and unless they were supporting their kids, they would much rather have been at the Tower of Power gig going on across town. And that is what I am talking about as it applies to the artistic educational direction as opposed to the entertainment direction DCI has been going in for quite a while. Whatever you say! I maintain football isn't for the layperson. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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