Stu Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Cappybara said: What I am saying is that there is room for shows that are mostly educational (or are pushing something that the designers want the audience to get), But at what expense? Believing that reaching a few intellectuals in the audience with a mainly cerebral show concept, and in turn needing to attempt educating the rest through press-releases and tutorials in order to get the majority to be entertained, that is rather nuts. Eventually at some point the mass in the audience will either become edified (less likely), or they will start to turn away (more likely). And that is a huge, massive risk to take in a commercial world where corps are dependent on keeping ticket sales high. This is why Ceserio has, as DCI Artistic Director, warned designers that they are directly responsible for the audience disconnecting with these mainly cerebral show concepts that require tutorial edification; and to knock it off; and to create the hybrids. Then both the few intellectuals who want to pay to think as well as the majority that want to pay to get entertainment will be served. And if in the process a few fan epiphanies occur, and they turn into intellectuals, fine. Edited July 26, 2017 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 12 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: No. you just refuse to think people are smarter enough to look on their own. Do I? Isn't this entire thread based on some people having questions about how judges make certain decisions? Questions that they couldn't find the answers to elsewhere? You're not claiming this thread doesn't exist, are you? Should all questions in this forum be answered by saying, "Google it"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said: ... Isn't this entire thread based on some people having questions about how judges make certain decisions? Uhhhh... nope. This entire thread is based on what the OP posted, in bold, in the first line: I would LOVE to hear other’s opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Stu said: But at what expense? Believing that reaching a few intellectuals in the audience with a mainly cerebral show concept, and in turn needing to attempt educating the rest through press-releases and tutorials in order to get the majority to be entertained, that is rather nuts. Eventually at some point the mass in the audience will either become edified (less likely), or they will start to turn away (more likely). And that is a huge, massive risk to take in a commercial world where corps are dependent on keeping ticket sales high. This is why Ceserio has, as DCI Artistic Director, warned designers that they are directly responsible for the audience disconnecting with these mainly cerebral show concepts that require tutorial edification; and to knock it off; and to create the hybrids. Then both the few intellectuals who want to pay to think as well as the majority that want to pay to get entertainment will be served. And if in the process a few fan epiphanies occur, and they turn into intellectuals, fine. Look, we can go in circles over and over. Just agree to disagree Edited July 26, 2017 by Cappybara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Stu said: Uhhhh... nope. This entire thread is based on what the OP posted, in bold, in the first line: I would LOVE to hear other’s opinions. Well, yes, but "others' opinions" about ... ? Edited July 26, 2017 by N.E. Brigand Apostrophe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 1 minute ago, Cappybara said: Look, we can go in circles over and over. Just agree to disagree True we are in disagreement and it will likely stay that way. Nevertheless, my opinion is in agreement with the Artistic Director of DCI; so I am not that concerned about our disagreement here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 5 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said: Well, yes, but "others' opinions" about ... ? There is a big difference between wanting other's opinions about adjudicating, which is the point of this thread according to the OP, and merely wanting factual information in which the rule book can be purchased for $40, I think, from DCI. Soliciting 'opinions' will get 40 plus pages of grumps like us obsessively typing away; soliciting the factual information will get one posting sending the person to buy the rule book from DCI and then a dead thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrk Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Stu said: The short libretto handed out by one corps, Regiment, in the eighties had, by post Y2K, turned into long-winded press releases, website pages full of explanations, and pre-show tutorial courses presented by nearly all of the top corps in DCI. Um.... that is a situation where artistic designers actually are thinking it is necessary to push education onto the audience in order to transmit their craft effectively. Okay? I think we may agree more than we differ, with the exception of your last sentence, the intention of artistic designers and the definition of audience. I'd agree that many show announcements and descriptions in recent years have been verbose and to some, borderline pretentious (I believe a few catapulted over that borderline into the realm of self-important artspeak-babble). I disagree that it is universally an attempt to educate the wider audience. In the case of the Spartacus libretto - it seems clear the goal was to provide information to the fans in the stands - hence handing them out at shows. With the "post Y2K" trend, I'm simply not convinced the intended goal is to generally push education onto the wider audience - the fans in the stand - but that they are instead communicating to a different, much narrower audience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vdad76 Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 22 hours ago, N.E. Brigand said: And I agree that in general, drum corps ought to be like accessible to most of the audience. However, there will be disagreements and uncertainty as to what the audience desires (and if you just give them what they tell you they want, they'll probably be bored), and the performer ought to anticipate that some members of the audience will want more information and be ready to provide it (remember, about 25% of my audience likes having a preshow discussion: there is a genuine desire among some portion of the audience for their entertainment experience to be enhanced by an educational experience). I mean, if it were all about mass entertainment, shouldn't drum corps abandon classical music altogether? Agreed, although they might have learned some classical music by watching cartoons on Saturday mornings, so there may be some understanding going on at that point. (Not trying to be sarcastic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Just now, Vdad76 said: Agreed, although they might have learned some classical music by watching cartoons on Saturday mornings, so there may be some understanding going on at that point. (Not trying to be sarcastic) Didn't Saturday Night Live once have a faux-commercial for classical music CDs, but pitched to an audience that only knows them from cartoons? (Which is what Academy's show makes me think of.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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