BlueStainGlass Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Can someone crunch numbers from say this year atleast or last 3? Only problem I can see is say BD won Thursday and Friday and SCV beats them by .025 on Saturday. Even with a weighted avg BD could take home gold and people lose it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Thread sounds like "BD didn't win enough things so I'm mad about it". 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 25 minutes ago, NakedEye said: The performances take a notable jump and there should be some recognition of that. Do they? When people who have attended all of championships post reviews, they usually say of a number of Finalist corps that they gave the better performance on Friday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, geluf said: Thread sounds like "BD didn't win enough things so I'm mad about it". And I thought only people who liked other corps complained about the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, geluf said: Thread sounds like "BD didn't win enough things so I'm mad about it". I can understand how it sounds that way but this thread pops up early. Single. Year. I distinctly remember it popping up one year where BD stole a couple captions and people were upset about it. It goes both ways, it's best to separate those small biases and look at the argument by itself. Does it have merit or does it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStainGlass Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, geluf said: Thread sounds like "BD didn't win enough things so I'm mad about it". I never will understand logic of not wanting the person to win the final show to win but always good to see other views. The one odd thing is new judging panels every night (and all the conspiracy of judges) what if they had 1 panel that doesn't judge all season that judges all 3 nights so they don't miss first reads and don't have prior bias. I'm sure some corps got more viewings from finalist judges during the season than others so they can go "yeah this is much better" and reward it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 It's been this way forever, I don't see any real reason to change it beyond "my favorite group would have gotten an extra trophy". The logic of averaging is that no one judge gets to call the caption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Cappybara said: I can understand how it sounds that way but this thread pops up early. Single. Year. I distinctly remember it popping up one year where BD stole a couple captions and people were upset about it. It goes both ways, it's best to separate those small biases and look at the argument by itself. Does it have merit or does it not? Oh I've always been a fan of just using finals results to determine caption awards. The downside, obviously, is that you are at the mercy of the panel that particular night, and there is plenty of evidence that judges hold different shows to have different amounts of value. Heck, look at SCV's GE scores all year. Judges were all over the place about whether they thought it was the best product on the field, or not even worthy of medaling. They pretty consistently got "1sts" from specific judges and "4ths" from others. Or like the color guard scores this week. SCV gets a 99 in Substance and Performance prelims and semis night, easily taking the caption. But the judge on Finals night decided that actually they should have a 97 in substance and 96 in performance, taking 2nd. Flip them with either of the other two for the night and the result in the caption likely changes. That's just how it works. Judge draw has a real effect on finals outcomes and always has, and always will, because they just don't see things the same way across the board. Whatever you do, though, it has to be consistent. My stance has always been that if you're going to average for caption scores, then you should average finals week for final placement. Which is obviously a logistical nightmare, but its consistent. If you aren't going to do that, then caption awards should be the day of. It needs to be one or the other 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, geluf said: Oh I've always been a fan of just using finals results to determine caption awards. The downside, obviously, is that you are at the mercy of the panel that particular night, and there is plenty of evidence that judges hold different shows to have different amounts of value. Heck, look at SCV's GE scores all year. Judges were all over the place about whether they thought it was the best product on the field, or not even worthy of medaling. They pretty consistently got "1sts" from specific judges and "4ths" from others. Or like the color guard scores this week. SCV gets a 99 in Substance and Performance prelims and semis night, easily taking the caption. But the judge on Finals night decided that actually they should have a 97 in substance and 96 in performance, taking 2nd. Flip them with either of the other two for the night and the result in the caption likely changes. That's just how it works. Judge draw has a real effect on finals outcomes and always has, and always will, because they just don't see things the same way across the board. Whatever you do, though, it has to be consistent. My stance has always been that if you're going to average for caption scores, then you should average finals week for final placement. Which is obviously a logistical nightmare, but its consistent. If you aren't going to do that, then caption awards should be the day of. It needs to be one or the other Why does it have to be black or white? One or the other? A little nuance goes a long way, having a weighted average gives you the best of both worlds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said: And I thought only people who liked other corps complained about the results. Considering Flam posted this in another thread: "keep changing the rules to get your participation medals and you still got your ### beat by BD! LMAO So how many undefeated seasons was it in the last 10 years? 4 How many do you have?" To a poster who was just having a discussion, I'm going to go ahead and assume his motives aren't that pure. Edited August 13, 2017 by geluf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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