ContraFart Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Cappybara said: Atleast be a little consistent (you love that word, don't you) with your logic and please check scores before making claims. You've been making a lot of mistakes and I'm tired of having to fact check In 2007, Cadets were beating BD a week before championship week. By your definition of "winning head to heads prior to finals week," 2007 is a toss up. In 2011, the Blue Devils were beating the Cadets a week before championship week. By your definition of "winning head to heads prior to finals week." 2011 is a toss up. (Not to mention that the spread was never more than 0.5) By comparison, in 2009 Crown was down by as much as more than 2.5 points in late July. If you really think you're seeing something from your computer that the judges aren't seeing on the field, I suggest you take @DeusExGreenMachina's advice and sign up to be a judge so you can educate them on how to really judge objectively. In 2007 did BD not have a head to head win over Cadets prior to finals week? (Actually I think BD won more head to head match ups that season even though they did not meet up that often. It was a lopsided season with finals being out west) In 2011 did Cadets not have a head to head win over BD prior to finals week (They were neck and neck within .05 but cadets pulled away at the end and that is after they had to rewrite a whole bunch of drill to accommodate an injured snare drummer)? In both cases the corps that won Saturday night won the rest of the week. I would call 2008 a toss up since Phantom never won a head to head match up until finals night. 2013 is close to a toss up because if my memory serves me correctly Crown only won a couple head to head match ups prior to semis. In 2009 I think Crown had a more difficult and engaging product. In fact it's by far my favorite Crown show and one of my top 5 favorite shows ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Cappybara said: I have to ask, are you a scientist? On 8/20/2017 at 9:57 PM, ContraFart said: I wish I could take your [DeusExGreenMachina] advice and become a judge myself, but I am a medical biller. I lack the educational background. Interesting.... especially considering all other postings which complain about the supposed lack of integrity by the DCI judges. Edited August 23, 2017 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Stu said: Here 'on DCP' all opinions are valid; when it comes to 'DCI Tickets getting sold or going unsold' fans opinions are valid; but in 'DCI Competition, Rankings, and Scoring', only The Judges opinions are valid. As a fan, if you can overcome your DCP griping enough to enjoy the shows, by all means buy tickets and go to DCI shows. If you cannot overcome your griping then stop buying tickets to DCI shows. But either way while your opinions certainly are valid here, and they mean something if you buy or do not buy a ticket, they also mean diddly squat nada to the actual scoring and rankings; and the same goes for my opinions. Oh.... and that is the way it should be!!!!!!! Apparently my opinion is not valid about subjective competition. Its either I agree with the outcomes or I am wrong in whatever reasoning I use regardless of how educated or uneducated it may be. If the only recourse to show my discontent is to stop buying tickets/merchandise, then its a false choice. But if you are going to stay on your high horse and say your infinate wisdom is absolute and reward shows that fans don't think should be rewarded, then we will start to go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Stu said: Interesting.... especially considering all other postings which complain about the supposed lack of integrity by the DCI judges. My posts are not about the judges, its about the system allowing variances that could change outcomes if the names on the panel change. You seem to think consistency is a bad thing. Edited August 23, 2017 by ContraFart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 4 hours ago, ContraFart said: Polling is about predicting, DCI is a direct evaluation How do you know it was not an error? Therein lies the problem. There is so much fluidity and volatility, there is no way to be confident in the score, hence accusations of favoritism and conspiracy. I will use the example again. Take this years semis performance and tell them it was the finals performance and give them the finals scores. Will they know that the video they are watching had SCV .2 ahead in guard and .2 ahead in vis prof? Or will they defend BD up .3 in Guard and a perfect score in vis prof (a whole .6 point difference)? No. Because the scores once on paper create a confirmation bias. You can always say this about any year, even pre-DCI. You either trust the judges to score each show on its merits, or you do not. If you do not, then scoring is completely meaningless, and always has been. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Schehr Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, MikeD said: You can always say this about any year, even pre-DCI. You either trust the judges to score each show on its merits, or you do not. If you do not, then scoring is completely meaningless, and always has been. There is biases. It's the game that all corps chose to play and has been since the beginning of drum corps competitions. And no they don't always get it right, but it's the system all agreed on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Just now, Jim Schehr said: There is biases. It's the game that all corps chose to play and has been since the beginning of drum corps competitions. And no they don't always get it right, but it's the system all agreed on. As stated earlier in the thread. Its the system the top corps agreed on. I don't think Mandarins vote gets the same weight as BD. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 28 minutes ago, ContraFart said: Apparently my opinion is not valid about subjective competition. Its either I agree with the outcomes or I am wrong in whatever reasoning I use regardless of how educated or uneducated it may be. If the only recourse to show my discontent is to stop buying tickets/merchandise, then its a false choice. But if you are going to stay on your high horse and say your infinate wisdom is absolute and reward shows that fans don't think should be rewarded, then we will start to go away. I stated that 'here on DCP' all opinions are valid, you have your opinion, which is just as valid as Cappy, which is just as valid as Jeff, etc... And mine are no more valid than yours here on DCP. But on the DCI competition field, our opinions are moot and mean nada. Only the DCI judges opinions have validity out there on the field and on the scoring/ranking. The best way to show your opinion about that is not grumping here, but show them that your money will not support what you consider to be a farce by stopping to buy tickets. If enough people do that I guarantee things will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) 54 minutes ago, ContraFart said: My posts are not about the judges, its about the system allowing variances that could change outcomes if the names on the panel change. You seem to think consistency is a bad thing. You stated that you thought the Sat run was better than the Fri run, combined with attacking the .5 drop on Sat. Those are your opinions, which here on DCP is fine, but it did assail the integrity of that professional person's judgement who was on the field in an official capacity. Edited August 23, 2017 by Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, Stu said: Sorry Bro: When you stated that you thought the Sat run was better than the Fri run, combined with attacking the .5 drop on Sat, you did, with those statements, call into question the integrity of the person, the judge. That is your opinion, which here on DCP is fine, but it did assail the integrity of that person's judgement. Yet the reason for that shift cannot be explained by anyone other than that judge. The premise that you brought said that no 2 judges view a show the same way or even from the same vantage point. So why is it insulting to question objective opinion? If another judge was judging that night, the outcome might have been different. However the recorded number is always going to create a confirmation bias when you the view the show in retrospect. This is why the person judging is more important than the performance on the field. In the hypothetical. If you win a caption in every competition all season except at the shows a particular judge was on that caption and that judge is judging that caption on finals night....what would that corps think their chances would be to win that caption that night? 21 minutes ago, Stu said: I stated that 'here on DCP' all opinions are valid, you have your opinion, which is just as valid as Cappy, which is just as valid as Jeff, etc... And mine are no more valid than yours here on DCP. But on the DCI competition field, our opinions are moot and mean nada. Only the DCI judges opinions have validity out there on the field and on the scoring/ranking. The best way to show your opinion about that is not grumping here, but show them that your money will not support what you consider to be a farce by stopping to buy tickets. If enough people do that I guarantee things will change. Enough people did so that. Remember the 90s? In would rather try to change minds than let the activity die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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