Enough Judging Conspiracy Theories

[Jeff Ream]

17 hours ago, ContraFart said:

No you use statements out of context. You take statements meant to make a different rhetorical point and use them to dance around and even ignore the premise at hand and you do it with smug superiority. You have no interest in having a productive conversation.

isn't he a stinker like that?

[Jeff Ream]

17 hours ago, MikeRapp said:

There will be flaws in any subjective scoring system. I think everyone understands this.

While there are aspects of how dci does things that I don't like, and more that I believe are pretty useless due to their self fulfilling nature, it's currently quite difficult to legitimately question what are the final outcomes at the top. It's all going to come down to what you personally value over something else.

In the end, the worrisome aspect of the current system, imo, is that it is practically impossible to climb into medal contention for corps that have rarely if ever been there. Again, it's the nature of the system, plus the fact that older kids want to march with kids their own age and experience. They also want to win a medal before they age out. Which, again, only further solidifies the "herd mentality" of the current scoring system.

I want to say thank you to Jeff Ream' DeusGreen and others here who are or have been active judges. I appreciate your time and perspectives on the matter.

no system is perfect. But about that medal thing:

 

sure it took Crown and Bloo a while to get there. SCV is in and out, and now Cavies and Cadets aren't a lock. Phantom medaled in the last few years. So add them in with BD, and you have 7 corps who have medaled in the last 7 or so years. fighting for 3 spots. and now you see Boston looking like they could knock on the door. The competition at the top is pretty tight. I mean, if you look at the history of DCI there's two guarantees:

 

SCV will make finals

BD has a #### good shot at the top 3.

 

Is that the system's fault, given how many systems have been used since 1972, or is it that those corps consistently put out a product good enough to achieve that consistency?

[Jeff Ream]

17 hours ago, queenanne_1536 said:

Yes, but that system is heavily flawed, and there's really no logical defense of it.

it's actually less flawed than previous systems

[Jeff Ream]

17 hours ago, ContraFart said:

I think judges get it in the ball park, but when 1-3 are separated by less than a point, arent there legitimate questions about the limits of the system?

As for the worrisome part. I totally agree, but I think that is an overall structural problem. There is no way to legislate parody and keep the overall growth of the activity going. 

and remember...less than a point is the total of all of the sheets added/averaged together. it's very rare a corps wins every single sheet anymore

[Cappybara]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

and remember...less than a point is the total of all of the sheets added/averaged together. it's very rare a corps wins every single sheet anymore

I think that's an important thing to put into perspective. Winning by 0.5 is a tiny margin when you consider how many different judges' inputs are being accounted for. A tenth here, a tenth there, and you get a different result altogether. 

[Jeff Ream]

15 hours ago, DeusExGreenMachina said:

When they are that close, that's when the fun starts.  That means they're all really really good--and it's up to the best performing corps to take home the ring.

11 sheets at finals this year:

BD won 7, 2nd in 3, 3rd in 1

SCV won 2, 2nd in 6, 3rd on 3

Crown won 2 sheets, 2nd in 2, 3rd on 4, 5th in 2 and a 6th.....

 

so really it's not the systems fault. blame the tab, they put em in and let competition suite do the math

[Jeff Ream]

15 hours ago, DeusExGreenMachina said:

Then why do I see, when looking at the 2017 recaps, that in one particular caption, there is a difference of greater than 1 point between two particular units?

Edit: I actually see not one, but five instances of this on finals night.  Full point of difference either in one judge's score, or a combined score in a unit's directly ordinated competitor as it pertains to finals overall placements.  Heck 4th place to an 8th place unit.  This is why we have the system in place.  Herd mentality?  Hardly.

Crown: .9 out of first in guard, ..9 out of first on field percussion

[Jeff Ream]

14 hours ago, Stu said:

27th Lancers, Bridgemen, Oakland Crusaders, Seneca Optimists, Freelancers, and Guardsmen were all in the top 12 the last time that phrase was said live on TV.

you miss the SNL anniversary special?

[Stu]

1 minute ago, Jeff Ream said:

you miss the SNL anniversary special?

Did Chevy and Jane, as older farts, do that skit 'live' on the anniversary special as a tribute? If so, I stand corrected; if not, the last time it was done 'live', which is what I posted, was when those corps were in the top 12.

[Jeff Ream]

12 minutes ago, Stu said:

Did Chevy and Jane, as older farts, do that skit 'live' on the anniversary special as a tribute? If so, I stand corrected; if not, the last time it was done 'live', which is what I posted, was when those corps were in the top 12.

they did all kinds of skits based on the past including the longest news segment ever LOL