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5 hours ago, totaleefree said:

Not blaming this on WGI. However some corps wait until after WGI to start full corps camps. If you have 2 or 3 weeks of camp you can get your show together by June and field a good corps. With DCA a lot of corps start at little later. If they were to have their champs say 2nd weekend in Aug. They would not be very clean. From what I have seen DCA corps make vast improvements from DCI finals until Labor  Day.  An earlier day for finals would mean that corps would have to start rehearsal earlier, also most shows would have to be ready by Memorial day if they wanted a season longer than 6 weeks. At one time reinforcements from DCI were needed to get DCA corps to finals, with an earlier final DCA would lose that, however I don't think that is nearly as large a group as it was a few years back.

some may not bring the guard in right away, but, well....the lead  dog for the better part of the last 14 years starts in November, indoor or no indoor, and they're in an area where not only do you have WGI groups, but you also have TIA, CBA, USBands, MAIN, MAPS, KIDA...and lord help me i am probably missing a circuit...maybe AIA....running stuff weekly. 

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17 minutes ago, HBD said:

 

In two years they wouldn't even need stands!😂

the stands at finals don't have handrails, so halfway there!

  • Haha 3

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13 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

you mean like Mini Corps? thats been there for forever?

 

Problem is, it costs money to move those groups too. Do people truly want to pay to see it? Remember, the 35 rule was put in place because paying customers complained to hosts about paying to see smaller groups. granted, quality of those groups was an unspoken factor in that, but.....would it draw? Mini Corps was Soundsport 20+ years before there was Soundsport

Drawing might not be the exact point of Sound Sport and Minis, Jeff. Think of SCCA Autocross or club racing. The people who do it are the crowd for those who do it. At least someone's doing something. Maybe the groups have to pony up more in fees to get a venue. For example, I ran my CRX at Pocono in 1988 on part of the banking. Do I care anyone other than my Dad... (I'll talk later on that, man... ) really watched? 

 

I'm uncertain, Jeff. I have some contacts and in's at HACC. Could I put something small together through it? I've been thinking of trying.

 

There are a lot of problems corps are having- Dues... time... commitment.... Maybe there just has to be some thinking of trying to build through grass roots and through something far simpler instead of the more traditional and more demanding expensive way right now.

 

Another thing kind of like it... Tubachristmas. Some of the events like Reading have a great venue and an actual following that's been cultivated carefully over many years. Others, are there mainly for the 7 people who show up and are playing for one another and some of their families at a mall. Both have a place and are valid, and I enjoy performing at both kinds. It doesn't need to be the big 200+ performer mobs that get on TV.

Edited by BigW

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14 hours ago, lcarlton said:

I'm on the other side of this.. having done the small pay to pay thing, it's nice but it still leaves the mid level 20-30 person ensembles without a means to grow, and/or foster the development of new field groups. I'm discussing a bridge to entertainment and growth if that makes sense.

Maybe there needs to be a well thought out multi step/tiered approach where groups who want to develop and grow have something within DCA in some way shape and form that's more than is currently provided. More thought than I can give to it right now is needed. 

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7 hours ago, HBD said:

 

In two years they wouldn't even need stands!😂

Perhaps we can go back to the old Maxwell Field setup from back in the day... three rows of stands, everyone else sitting on lawn chairs or blankets. :tongue:

Edited by Fran Haring

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4 hours ago, BigW said:

Drawing might not be the exact point of Sound Sport and Minis, Jeff. Think of SCCA Autocross or club racing. The people who do it are the crowd for those who do it. At least someone's doing something. Maybe the groups have to pony up more in fees to get a venue. For example, I ran my CRX at Pocono in 1988 on part of the banking. Do I care anyone other than my Dad... (I'll talk later on that, man... ) really watched? 

 

I'm uncertain, Jeff. I have some contacts and in's at HACC. Could I put something small together through it? I've been thinking of trying.

 

There are a lot of problems corps are having- Dues... time... commitment.... Maybe there just has to be some thinking of trying to build through grass roots and through something far simpler instead of the more traditional and more demanding expensive way right now.

 

Another thing kind of like it... Tubachristmas. Some of the events like Reading have a great venue and an actual following that's been cultivated carefully over many years. Others, are there mainly for the 7 people who show up and are playing for one another and some of their families at a mall. Both have a place and are valid, and I enjoy performing at both kinds. It doesn't need to be the big 200+ performer mobs that get on TV.

well...yes and no. if I am a host, odds are these groups will want something for coming to cover expenses. Will these groups draw enough fans to justify that cost? DCA shows aren't exactly drawing 5000 fans. Especially since DCA is still on the every corps negotiates their fees on their own plan, hosts have to look at costs, because you don't make money, you can't keep running a show. You have whatever DCA fee is involved, judges fees, hotels/travel for judges, stadium rental often times, and most of the time the food sold goes to the facility's main tenants, not the corps like you get at band shows. Do they have to pay fees to rent other schools for rehearsal space/facilities? 

 

we're trying to talk about drum corps as a business here, and these are real world considerations. Remember the 35 minimum membership rule was brought to life because hosts were getting complaints from fans about paying to see ( and I am paraphrasing) " small bad corps"

 

A show is run for the host to make money. I know the band world end intimately, and they get lots of perks a corps doesn't because it's the schools own facility 95% of the time. Their boosters hustle for the food and get the profits. They hustle for the ad sales for the programs....and they don't have to pay much for bands to show up ( usually either a small stipend or they give the band a batch of tickets to sell and keep) or rehearsal facilities for them. I'd imagine judging costs aren't as much either.

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2 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

well...yes and no. if I am a host, odds are these groups will want something for coming to cover expenses. Will these groups draw enough fans to justify that cost? DCA shows aren't exactly drawing 5000 fans. Especially since DCA is still on the every corps negotiates their fees on their own plan, hosts have to look at costs, because you don't make money, you can't keep running a show. You have whatever DCA fee is involved, judges fees, hotels/travel for judges, stadium rental often times, and most of the time the food sold goes to the facility's main tenants, not the corps like you get at band shows. Do they have to pay fees to rent other schools for rehearsal space/facilities? 

 

we're trying to talk about drum corps as a business here, and these are real world considerations. Remember the 35 minimum membership rule was brought to life because hosts were getting complaints from fans about paying to see ( and I am paraphrasing) " small bad corps"

 

A show is run for the host to make money. I know the band world end intimately, and they get lots of perks a corps doesn't because it's the schools own facility 95% of the time. Their boosters hustle for the food and get the profits. They hustle for the ad sales for the programs....and they don't have to pay much for bands to show up ( usually either a small stipend or they give the band a batch of tickets to sell and keep) or rehearsal facilities for them. I'd imagine judging costs aren't as much either.

Right in so many ways. I think this would have to be a stage venue somewhere near the event, and yes, the costs would have to be covered by the entrant fees for certain. Much like the SCCA Autocross events. I remember paying a  decent chunk for the chance to drive part of Pocono. That formula would have to be something like the anticipated number of entrants... how much the venue costs, pay the adjudicators (usually 2) and divided by... Something where people can show up for free and hopefully, enjoy. A sideshow done that morning/afternoon before the actual contest. Yeah, someone can watch rehearsal all day and some do, but it might be a positive alternative for some folks as well.

 

Something tells me this- with some decent brass players and percussion not worrying about moving around like dervishes at the 4-8 performer level, there could be some very enjoyable music to listen to from more than a few of the entrants, at least I'd freakin' hope. It wouldn't be like a 21 member barely rehearsed ragtag corps running around on an open field spread out to the 20's and well, not exactly succeeding out there.

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It's NOT 1970

 

Go back to three man squads.

Color pre.

Start on the left "off the line".

Concert piece.

G BUGLES!

Leave via the right side of the field.

It's not rocket science.  Within two years the stands would be full.  So would the horn lines and drum lines.

Try it.  If it doesn't work in two years....fold.

Probably going to fold anyways if they keep going this way.

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1 hour ago, BigW said:

Right in so many ways. I think this would have to be a stage venue somewhere near the event, and yes, the costs would have to be covered by the entrant fees for certain. Much like the SCCA Autocross events. I remember paying a  decent chunk for the chance to drive part of Pocono. That formula would have to be something like the anticipated number of entrants... how much the venue costs, pay the adjudicators (usually 2) and divided by... Something where people can show up for free and hopefully, enjoy. A sideshow done that morning/afternoon before the actual contest. Yeah, someone can watch rehearsal all day and some do, but it might be a positive alternative for some folks as well.

 

Something tells me this- with some decent brass players and percussion not worrying about moving around like dervishes at the 4-8 performer level, there could be some very enjoyable music to listen to from more than a few of the entrants, at least I'd freakin' hope. It wouldn't be like a 21 member barely rehearsed ragtag corps running around on an open field spread out to the 20's and well, not exactly succeeding out there.

so you're talking about the groups paying to play? So not only do they have travel costs, but they also pay to play? they lose double.

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I figure this, Jeff. 2 cars of people, everyone ponys up 25(?) bucks for the day for DCA to cover their expenses...... about what I'd pony up for an autocross event at Spooky Nook to run my car. Add the 400 bucks for a helmet... I figure everyone's got their instruments of choice.

Edited by BigW

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