Questions on video for DCA judging

[JimF-LowBari]

15 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

well when being judged live, the judges see everything, so why should video be different?

Know you are responding to W but my OP was referring to audience only. I gave up on thinking of the judging aspect 😆

[BigW]

37 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:

Know you are responding to W but my OP was referring to audience only. I gave up on thinking of the judging aspect 😆

Both are tied. Crowd pleasing shouldn't be totally exclusive to a number.

 

The thing is, you start pulling certain tricks to maybe generate GE but it's not as challenging as the design team wants you to think it is... the people in the right captions that day have to know to call the B.S., why, and by how much. If it's effective, it's effective. There's even nuance there. Sometimes, doing something exceedingly difficult very, very well can be effective. (See just about any Cavaliers show from Brubaker era forward).

 

Enjoying the conversation very much. We're talking about some deep stuff here. Seriously.

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, BigW said:

And whether anyone recognized how freakin' hard it was for the percussion section of your team to play together atomized all over the field at times instead of being concentrated as usual... 😉

no that was me. i actually saw him give someone #### for giving us a 10 a week before ACC's..."we have nowhere to go!"

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, BigW said:

Good design takes away what the visual designer does not want you to see, like that huge billboard on the back of the building behind the stadium. It draws your attention to where your attention's to be drawn. A given.

 

Now...if one has the advantage of what's framed in the video to take away any possible distractions from the viewer and hem you in like those huge framing props to make you see what's to be seen, why not? If the design is solid, it will appear even more solid. I know this makes you frown. We all can smell the cheese. But, if you can take advantage of what you can and cannot do to help your team within the rules framework (and moral ethics, one shouldn't be breaking federal or state laws or hurting people....), one should do it. 

 

Example comes to mind-- When the whole electronics shebang went though DCI, IIRC, the Blue Coats weren't very keen on it, but they also said, if it goes this way, we're all in in terms of equipment and design and we won't be left behind. Obviously, they haven't been in that aspect.

so then it becomes an exercise in video editing. 

[BigW]

14 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

no that was me. i actually saw him give someone #### for giving us a 10 a week before ACC's..."we have nowhere to go!"

LOL. My guess is he was worried about peaking early at that point.

[BigW]

14 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

so then it becomes an exercise in video editing. 

In part, yes. No arguments there. the thing is, you'd better have some  real substance in that editing.  Editing won't save you if the drill design is weak, and you can't hide the stumblebums if a lot of the group are for the whole program. But, you have to do given the situation you're placed in to do right by the organization and present them in the best light possible. If you have a good product and you present it with a half baked video, it's a disservice to the performers. I think it'd be like slapping all of them in the face.

 

And... if you're obviously hiding weak issues during the entire presentation using careful video editing...how does one assess an entire ensemble in terms of visual construction and the performance of that ensemble? When an adjudicator can't get a feel for what the average Joe or Jane really knows and demonstrates in a performance, questions begin to be asked, or had better be asked. The best groups pretty much show you everyone musically and visually sending a message of, "here we are, take a good look at all of us, we have our (act) together, we're well taught and the performers know what's expected of them to make this show work". Can they make that impression even stronger with better video editing than an equivalent opponent? Might break a tie. Might give them .1 .

 

I'd think the DCA adjudicators would recognize some of the shenanigans when they're being used and take it into account and not be sucked into an unreasonable number. The ones I know personally are pretty smart and experienced people.

[BrassTeacher]

Again, video/audio editing is not allowed at all in videos submitted for judging. The camera cannot be zoomed in or out, or even adjusted at all once the show starts. The entire show is required to be recorded in one take.

[JimF-LowBari]

2 hours ago, BrassTeacher said:

Again, video/audio editing is not allowed at all in videos submitted for judging. The camera cannot be zoomed in or out, or even adjusted at all once the show starts. The entire show is required to be recorded in one take.

However I’ve seen switching between high camera and hand held on the field. Have seen it at least once so maybe that corps misunderstood the rules

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, BigW said:

In part, yes. No arguments there. the thing is, you'd better have some  real substance in that editing.  Editing won't save you if the drill design is weak, and you can't hide the stumblebums if a lot of the group are for the whole program. But, you have to do given the situation you're placed in to do right by the organization and present them in the best light possible. If you have a good product and you present it with a half baked video, it's a disservice to the performers. I think it'd be like slapping all of them in the face.

 

And... if you're obviously hiding weak issues during the entire presentation using careful video editing...how does one assess an entire ensemble in terms of visual construction and the performance of that ensemble? When an adjudicator can't get a feel for what the average Joe or Jane really knows and demonstrates in a performance, questions begin to be asked, or had better be asked. The best groups pretty much show you everyone musically and visually sending a message of, "here we are, take a good look at all of us, we have our (act) together, we're well taught and the performers know what's expected of them to make this show work". Can they make that impression even stronger with better video editing than an equivalent opponent? Might break a tie. Might give them .1 .

 

I'd think the DCA adjudicators would recognize some of the shenanigans when they're being used and take it into account and not be sucked into an unreasonable number. The ones I know personally are pretty smart and experienced people.

but you need to have an even playing field even on video. at a show, the judge sees the whole field. on a video they need to see the whole field. opening Pandoras box, even if it were allowed, creates a huge imbalance, and yeah its virtual, but the rules have to be consistent for all. there's no justifying it, whats good for one is good for all, and DCA chose to keep things out of the editing suite and provide the full shot, and rightly so

[Jeff Ream]

9 hours ago, BigW said:

LOL. My guess is he was worried about peaking early at that point.

i told him we still had one sub box at 9.9 LOL