Keep the Amps out of drum corps, part dos

[MikeD]

I still believe the original comment is a Freudian slip.  It reflects the real attitude.  Coming back later trying to take it back doesn't quite cut it.

He wasn't taking it back..these threads are conversations...he saw something interpreted incorrectly and corrected the mis-interpretation.

The fact that there are directors speaking up in private conversations, but not publicly makes me believe that

1) the money is a heavy factor.

2) the directors are afraid of certain other directors that seem to wield the power.  They fear the retribution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've never read/heard any directors Email or speak of the things that you and Jeff seem to be saying. Until such time as I see direct evidence, I just can't give it much credence.... for me...you of course are free to do what you wish.

Mike

[Jeff Ream]

Guys,

There is no need to get so upset over some of this stuff.  I respect those of you who wish to eliminate amps, or amps and vocals from drum and bugle corps.  I happen to agree with you on the vocals, but I like the amps.  Most people I speak to at shows tend to like the amps.  I do not think we are going backwards on amps any time soon, but you are welcome to petition their use along with the vocals.  The petition is a great idea, and I know that DCI and the corps directors will gladly read it.

Here are some questions I have:

1. Will this petition be handed out, or available for people to sign, at remaining shows?  This forum is too small when considering the entire population of drum corps fans. 

2. Perhaps there is a way you guys can advertise the DCP site at shows, and make a strong mention about this petition and why it's important.  This way more people will visit DCP and more will be likely to get involved and vote.

3. Other than gossip and rumor, usually about what some director said or didn't say, what strong evidence/reasons do you have that supports why vocals and amps are bad for the activity.  More and more corps are using amps, and quite well I might add.  Very few are using vocals or voice overs/narration.  The jury is still out on whether this is a good way to construct a show.  Me personally, I have not liked the vocal/narration integration to this date.  But the argument over sponsorship, who gives money to whom and so forth, is not exactly giving concrete reasons why it should be stopped.  I doubt it very much that some extraordinary amount of money is being given to corps so they will use vocals, or even amplification to that extent.  Most corps can live with it or without it.  The average fan has hardly noticed the amps.  My mother can attend a show and still have a great time and not notice the amps.  My girlfriend went to a show with me last year and didn't notice amps until I told her about them.  And even then she could have cared less. 

In other words, who is your audience? Are you guys the minority or the majority?  I am not sure myself, but my guess is that when it comes to amps you are the minority.  Most people I speak with at shows like the amps, or can at least live with them.  I would imagine that you are the majority in terms of vocals and narration.  But this may change.  How corps use it, how people respond to the good shows vs the bad shows, and how well the technology is used in future years will determine whether or not this practice continues.  If enough fans sign your petition and loudly complain about vocals then this petition will help to factor in change...and that is a good thing.

Just some thoughts.

Jonathan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1) yes we will be handing them out, emailing, you name it. whatever works. it has been posted in many other forums and sites as well.

2...I have considered that, and since i attend DCA shows, I may have takers. It is too late to get ahold of the show I am at this weekend, but feelers have been sent out to other sources.

3)...why is it bad? it drastically changed the acitivy. it was accoustic, and now it's one step away from electronic keyboards, electric guitars etc. Also it's bad because the rationales used by the sponsor of the amps rule basically lied in his reasons why it was needed. No pits have shrunk, mallet heights aren't noticably lower, and as we've seen from unamped shows, creativity is there if you think. The biggest thing, IMO, is that more and more fans are being turned off on it. The public outcry here on DCP is much worse than last year.

Sure, DCI states that young kids are where they want to market fine. But the legacy fans, the diehards that kept DCI alive when it wasn't doing well, are becoming more and more offended. These are the fans that go to multiple shows a year, have taken tapes and replaced them with cd's, taken videos and replaced then with dvd's. These are the fans that year after year come back and give hundreds to thousands of dollars to DCI and it's corps. No offense to the kids, these are the real big spenders.

the audience is anyone who dislikes amps and/or narration. we left room for both, tho the focus this year is more on narration.

[Guest DrumCorpFan]

really now? then explain this

voted no...and was vocal about it....for Bb.

switched in what, 2001?

voted no to amps..and was vocal about it...then used them the first year out there.

so if he didnt feel he would be competitive without them, why did he say no and NOT stick to his no vote?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because although he voted no, he didn't really mean it. The Board twisted his vote. :blah:

[Jeff Ream]

He said that because of the show they are doing they felt they had to use it.

If they had picked a different show, or when they choose next year's show, they might not need it. Pretty clear to me.

I would guess that the availability of amps made an impact on the choices they made, another positive for amps...and it shows MORE, not LESS, creativity...IMO.

Mike

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i am so sure all of these shows truly need amps. yet theyhave them. I saw 6 juniors last year, none of them needed them, and of the 2 that didn't, their pits had perfect blend and didnt overpower the corps.

of the ones that did use them, the pits were extremely over balanced and i was 25 rows up

[MikeD]

i am so sure all of these shows truly need amps. yet theyhave them. I saw 6 juniors last year, none of them needed them, and of the 2 that didn't, their pits had perfect blend and didnt overpower the corps.

of the ones that did use them, the pits were extremely over balanced and i was 25 rows up

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I saw shows in both small and large venues, and I did not have those awful balance issues you seem to have had.

This year, of the corps I saw the pit balance was very good...and playing styles seem to be more natural.

As I said in a review, Cadets need to fine tune their vocals...both the opening narration and the drumspeak...IMO. But...the concept for each is good.

Mike

[Galen]

I've seen shows in both large venues (Evansville) and small ones (Des Plaines). Colts pit definitely overbalanced the hornline in a couple spots in Evansville; Cadets' were fairly loud as well in their show.

[MikeD]

3)...why is it bad? it drastically changed the acitivy. it was accoustic, and now it's one step away from electronic keyboards, electric guitars etc.

Irrelevant. Just because it "used to be" something doesn't make what it is today bad. Drum corps used to be all sorts of things, and over time it has grown and changed.

Also it's bad because the rationales used by the sponsor of the amps rule basically lied in his reasons why it was needed. No pits have shrunk, mallet heights aren't noticably lower, and as we've seen from unamped shows, creativity is there if you think. The biggest thing, IMO, is that more and more fans are being turned off on it. The public outcry here on DCP is much worse than last year.

You said pits are on average one member less. Not sure if it's true, but if so, there is that rationale. I hope they do NOT shrink them.

Pit stick heights are indeed lower IMO, from those I saw last Friday.

Creativity does not exist in only one way. There are creative shows using amps and creative shows not using them.

IMO the public outcry is FAR less this year than last. I have no idea where you get that from.

Sure, DCI states that young kids are where they want to market fine. But the legacy fans, the diehards that kept DCI alive when it wasn't doing well, are becoming more and more offended. These are the fans that go to multiple shows a year, have taken tapes and replaced them with cd's, taken videos and replaced then with dvd's. These are the fans that year after year come back and give hundreds to thousands of dollars to DCI and it's corps.

Where do you get this "more and more offended"? Just because a few think the way you do?

Anecdotal stories about legacy fans...

Last year at Giant's I sat in front of a guy from St Lucy's who stopped marching in 1966, and while he said he was not all that thrilled with Crown's singing, he understood things change, and he still loved coing to DCI shows. We talked about it a bit during breaks between corps.

This past Friday I was speaking to a guy who started marching in St Joes Patron Cadets in 66...stayed with them when they became St Ritas...and aged out in SCV in 1973. We gave each other our opinions as each corps competed...not a single mention of amps or narration.

No offense to the kids, these are the real big spenders.

Disagree. Kids flock the the souvie booths and buy stuff from their favorite corps and videos from DCI...parents give their children far more than they take for themselves when it comes to disposable cash.

Mike

[Galen]

Kids flock the the souvie booths and buy stuff from their favorite corps and videos from DCI...parents give their children far more than they take for themselves when it comes to disposable cash.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd like to know how well Cadets' "Amp+Baton" shirt sold last year.

Or of Crown or Boston saw a big jump in their souvie sales last year because they used narration.

[MikeD]

I'd like to know how well Cadets' "Amp+Baton" shirt sold last year.

Or of Crown or Boston saw a big jump in their souvie sales last year because they used narration.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I doubt there would be an increase or decrease because of amps...I don't see them havig any effect, in and of themselves.

I am guessing Crown may have had an increase because of their higher placements putting them more in the public eye as a potential favorite, but I don't know. Just a guess.

I bought stuff from both BAC and Crown because I loved both corps last year...and I also bought stuff from Regiment for the same reason. Amps made no difference to me.

Mike

[Jeff Ream]

Mike, read around DCP, or continue to bury your head in the sand....it's your choice. but more and more are offended.

actually keep crying we're full of BS etc...you make our argument easier.