Keep the Amps out of drum corps, part dos

[Jeff Ream]

dont tempt me ^0^

[MikeD]

agreed Darren is not a director. and while you try to defend what he said, what he said was more on target than what Jeff tried to backtrack on.

However, another director, who wishes to remain anonymous but is leading a top D1 corps has spoken to me offline about it, and what he said would shock many people, even admitting getting cash enticements like political lobbysists do.

but hey, free cash is free cash, and being a businessman, he took the cash even tho he deep down felt like he sold his soul.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IMO....

You should not be using a director that can't be named in a petition like that. Just MHO.

As for the allegations of cash kickbacks, again IMO it's not something that should be published if you can't name the person making that assertion. It just comes across as make-believe to me without the evidence to back it up.

The Coats guy himself (Darren) said he never said what you and Dave accuse him of saying, and when I read his post, I agree with him.

Looks like we disagree as usual. :P

Mike

[Jeff Ream]

It's here and if current drum corps want to stay competitive and INNOVATIVE (like the 2005 Bluecoats) then all drum corps need to take advantage of the rules in place

http://www.drumcorpsplanet.org/forums//ind...6entry1064836

so whats that about he didnt say it?

[MikeD]

It's here and if current drum corps want to stay competitive and INNOVATIVE (like the 2005 Bluecoats) then all drum corps need to take advantage of the rules in place

http://www.drumcorpsplanet.org/forums//ind...6entry1064836

so whats that about he didnt say it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And he said in the same post....

(doesn't mean you HAVE to do A/E, but it is there so it makes sense to use it).

Yes, it's there as an option, and yes, for their show the Coats felt they should use it.

And when accused of saying they had to use A&E, in the same thread, Darren said this...

A/E is here and we are using is to make the '05 show work. I never stated that A/E was a necessity, but rather an innovation that corps have the option of using....and we are. The Bluecoats think it will help them be competitive with OUR SHOW....THIS YEAR. Who knows, maybe next years show design won't call for A/E...then what, are you going to be all bent out of shape again next year?

So yes, IMO he did NOT say anything close to what you think he said.

Mike

[Guest DrumCorpFan]

agreed Darren is not a director. and while you try to defend what he said, what he said was more on target than what Jeff tried to backtrack on.

However, another director, who wishes to remain anonymous but is leading a top D1 corps has spoken to me offline about it, and what he said would shock many people, even admitting getting cash enticements like political lobbysists do.

but hey, free cash is free cash, and being a businessman, he took the cash even tho he deep down felt like he sold his soul.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I mentioned before how a leading D1 director in Denver said that if we "the anti-amp people" paid him as much as the amp people did, he would sign the petition.

I wonder if we are talking about the same person?

[Guest DrumCorpFan]

lol, i got an email today from someone who said you approached them like it was assualt and battery.

man i had a great laugh about that

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pure propoganda lies. I made it my mission to be respectful of all opinions. Some asked, "what if we don't want to sign?" My response, "then don't sign and enjoy the show." I was respectful and polite to EVERYONE. Which is more than I can say for the Cadet souvie booth and a person known to post here in DCP.

Edited July 7, 2005 by DrumCorpFan

[Guest DrumCorpFan]

And he said in the same post....

Yes, it's there as an option, and yes, for their show the Coats felt they should use it.

And when accused of saying they had to use A&E, in the same thread, Darren said this...

So yes, IMO he did NOT say anything close to what you think he said.

Mike

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

then all drum corps need to take advantage of the rules in place

"all drum corps need to"

That's pretty cut and dry. I repeat, "all drum corps need to" Any comments trying to redefine that just shows it was a Fruedian Slip. The true attitude, like Jeff Fiedler's is shown.

As far as not naming other directors who make comments privately and off the record? I have heard similar comments as well. Where is it written that Jeff Ream or I need to reveal who they are, putting their positions in jeopardy, just to appease you? I won't do it without that director's permission and I doubt Jeff will either. Would you?

[skywalker]

Jeff Fiedler isn't the kind of guy to say something and not mean it, and his quick back pedaling afterwards was proof he knew he shouldn't have said it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's pretty obvious to anyone who knows Jeff Fiedler that he does NOT feel that it would be impossible for the Cavaliers to be competitive without using amplification. But by all means, keep twisting his words around. Keep lying to people. Keep distorting things. You're really good at it.

[MikeD]

"all drum corps need to"

That's pretty cut and dry.  I repeat, "all drum corps need to"  Any comments trying to redefine that just shows it was a Fruedian Slip.  The true attitude, like Jeff Fiedler's is shown.

Making use of the rules in place doesn't mean you have to implement every single facet of every rule. Darren made that quite clear, esp in his followup.

Example...Crown is not singing this year. Maybe they will again, or maybe someone else will...it's legal, but it's not mandatory.

Example...BAC is not narrating...BD is. Again, it's a rule in place that provides for the option if so chosen.

Example...Coats are using amps, for this year's show...As Darren said, they may not next year. Who knows? That's the gist of what he said, IMO. Not that just because it's legal to do X that every corps has to do X every year.

As far as not naming other directors who make comments privately and off the record?  I have heard similar comments as well.  Where is it written that Jeff Ream or I need to reveal who they are, putting their positions in jeopardy, just to appease you?  I won't do it without that director's permission and I doubt Jeff will either.  Would you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't have to do anything to "appease" me. You and Jeff can post whatever you want. You said the person was full of lies when they accused the person who asked them to sign last year's petition of "assault and battery" (since apparently it was you! :P ).

Well, maybe they made that up, and maybe you and Jeff made up the comments on the div I director. Since you can't divulge the info, as far as I'm concerned it just sits there as an interesting piece of information with no verification.

IMO that director should not be used as 'evidence' on a petition if you can't back up who it is if called on it.

However, that's just MHO too. Obviously you think otherwise...and it IS your petition.

Mike

[jwillis35]

Guys,

There is no need to get so upset over some of this stuff. I respect those of you who wish to eliminate amps, or amps and vocals from drum and bugle corps. I happen to agree with you on the vocals, but I like the amps. Most people I speak to at shows tend to like the amps. I do not think we are going backwards on amps any time soon, but you are welcome to petition their use along with the vocals. The petition is a great idea, and I know that DCI and the corps directors will gladly read it.

Here are some questions I have:

1. Will this petition be handed out, or available for people to sign, at remaining shows? This forum is too small when considering the entire population of drum corps fans.

2. Perhaps there is a way you guys can advertise the DCP site at shows, and make a strong mention about this petition and why it's important. This way more people will visit DCP and more will be likely to get involved and vote.

3. Other than gossip and rumor, usually about what some director said or didn't say, what strong evidence/reasons do you have that supports why vocals and amps are bad for the activity. More and more corps are using amps, and quite well I might add. Very few are using vocals or voice overs/narration. The jury is still out on whether this is a good way to construct a show. Me personally, I have not liked the vocal/narration integration to this date. But the argument over sponsorship, who gives money to whom and so forth, is not exactly giving concrete reasons why it should be stopped. I doubt it very much that some extraordinary amount of money is being given to corps so they will use vocals, or even amplification to that extent. Most corps can live with it or without it. The average fan has hardly noticed the amps. My mother can attend a show and still have a great time and not notice the amps. My girlfriend went to a show with me last year and didn't notice amps until I told her about them. And even then she could have cared less.

In other words, who is your audience? Are you guys the minority or the majority? I am not sure myself, but my guess is that when it comes to amps you are the minority. Most people I speak with at shows like the amps, or can at least live with them. I would imagine that you are the majority in terms of vocals and narration. But this may change. How corps use it, how people respond to the good shows vs the bad shows, and how well the technology is used in future years will determine whether or not this practice continues. If enough fans sign your petition and loudly complain about vocals then this petition will help to factor in change...and that is a good thing.

Just some thoughts.

Jonathan