Corps Bashing

[DaKman]

never understood why people booed star back in the day when what they did of the same calibur, that got them there, was cheered on...it was only when they became a contender did they get booed. how hard it must have been to march in such innovative shows, push the limits, re-write the rules of show design and influence the entire activity to get booed by mr and mrs high school band parent redneck. I was always embarassed by some of the audiences behaviour.

funny how people booed star in 91, but yet cheered on cavies while their hornline played whole notes and their battery timing excercises....not to bash, i like cavies.

[MARK74]

umm.... no. Now back to the topic and my .02. I don't think that fans should bash a corps. I don't mind the statement, "I just didn't like that show". That statement is my opinion about the Blue Devil's 2005 program, I just didn't like the music nor the drill. Now, onto the real bashing of corps. In both DCI and DCA (I know, this is a "Junior Corps" Forum, but this is all inclusive), corps are being judged not by product, but scores and prestige. I know of fans who go out and audition for Junior Corps, but when they don't make it and I tell them about Shenandoah Sound, they laugh at me and tell me that they'll only march with a "champion" Drum Corps, not a "lesser" drum corps with little chances. Now this gets me thinking. "What is a "Champion" Drum Corps? Is it a corps that has at least one title to their name with the best staff they could afford? Or is it a corps who goes out, no matter what happens, and does the job regardless of judges scores?" If the latter is true, then aren't we all in a way "Champion" Drum corps? Who's to say that the unforunate corps in the lower tiers of DCI and DCA wouldn't become better with more people wanting to march to say, "I marched with this corps from "so-and-so" year to this year and I didn't get a title, but I don't care about it, I'm just happy to march." What is the problem with the kids who do not audition for DCI corps in general? If you live near a corps of any type, DCI or DCA, then at least give them the opportunity to see you and to let you know what they are about. Who knows? If you can't march DCI just yet, then take DCA and have a very limited schedule as a "weekend warrior" while getting the experience that all get from marching. That is what ticks me off about some of the players who are around the Drum Corps area who don't look at all available options for marching. Just a thought from a fellow marcher who wants to see the activity grow in all areas.

Scott and anybody else who has ever heard the "I'll only march with a champion " line. Potential members who say that are NOT the kind of people anyone wants in their corps anyway. If the ONLY reason somebody joins a corps is for "the ring" then they have absolutely missed the point and think themselves a greater asset to your corps than they most likely would ever be. Aside from that it is an incredibly limiting demand to make of ones self considering that since it's conception there have been less than 10 corps to win in division l . More appropriatly that person is saying "I'm sorry I don't have the character to go to a "lesser" program and try to help develope it into something special so that others may benefit from my work somewhere down the line,I want it now ,for me, too bad for anybody who can't go where I can go. That's a shame but we did breed this attitude ourselves by focusing sooo much on getting the ring ,instead of being fun and educational. Don't misunderstand me I'm not one of those who thinks that losing is wonderful and that it's losing that builds character and it's all o.k if we all just have a chance to perform,I'm as competitive as the next guy,probably more. I just think that taking local kids and turning them in to something special is alot tougher and alot more satisfying than taking the best the country has to offer and letting them carry(by THEIR ability to perform) a show .

[MARK74]

I don't think that anyone who has a negative comment on a corps show is taking anything away from the hard work or dedication of the kids on the field.

Sometimes someone may not like the show or the concept. When I go to a show why should I have to ask someone what I am watching? I'm watching drum corps, not a broadway production. I don't want to "think" I want to enjoy the show and what is happening on the field. As far as the div 2/3 comment, I enjoy the shows they do as well, and they work just as hard as the "big guys". Been there done that.

Bob

Most times when I "don't like a show it has nothing to do with the hard work of the members,or their ability to perform the show .My problem is design. I've marched and watched drum corps for more than thirty years and I appreciate all hard work, I just think as designers , people oops sometimes.

If you have to explain it...You did it wrong. That's all designers MUST remember they have 10 minutes or so to tell the whole story in a way that allows somebody who doesn't know the story in advance to follow.

As my art instructor once told me ...back away from the painting ..look at the whole thing and don't get sooo involved with YOUR favorite detail. Because it will detract from the whole effect. Sometimes WE like the idea when we design WE know what we meant. We must ALL get better at putting our story in a "language" that everybody understands without the drum corps version of a thesaurus.

[DaKman]

Most times when I "don't like a show it has nothing to do with the hard work of the members,or their ability to perform the show .My problem is design. I've marched and watched drum corps for more than thirty years and I appreciate all hard work, I just think as designers , people oops sometimes.

If you have to explain it...You did it wrong. That's all designers MUST remember they have 10 minutes or so to tell the whole story in a way that allows somebody who doesn't know the story in advance to follow.

As my art instructor once told me ...back away from the painting ..look at the whole thing and don't get sooo involved with YOUR favorite detail. Because it will detract from the whole effect. Sometimes WE like the idea when we design WE know what we meant. We must ALL get better at putting our story in a "language" that everybody understands without the drum corps version of a thesaurus.

u have a good attitude....you said it in a nutshell! everyone in every corps, whether div. 1, 2, 3 or DCA works very hard and sacrifices their time and energy.

[Chester]

So are we alowed to have negative opinons about shows or not? Is a negative opinon about a show, but not about a corps it self , is that corps bashing??

We all have our opinons, and many of us share them here. Some of may not like the product a particular corps put on the field. We say so. Thats not bashing. Wether or not the kids on the field put their heart and show into it or not isnt a factor. if the show is crap, thats what im gonna call it.

As performers we must all take the positive reviews with the negative ones. As marching members , we dont have a ton of say in what the show design will be. We go out, play our horns, and do our best.

If ya truley go out there, and do every thing you were told, and taught to do, and perform at yer highest level, then the negative reviews arent somthing the performer should take too personally.. leave that to the show designer.

then again, they will just tell ya how badly you did their material.. so best not to worry too much about it anyway.

anyway. just some thoughts.

[felixh]

I completly agree with Dudes words.

If you have a problem with a corps show and want to say they "let you down", and gripe about how you had to lug yourself to a show, and buy stuff, then that makes me laugh. If you think the corps is so much of a let down then don't watch them. I'm sure they don't care about your opinion. Another thing is you believe they were a let down then how about u start your own corps, and do better. THose kids put there heart and souls into there show, and for you to come on this board and give them a negative review like that is mean and unfair.

Geoff

Let me get this straight,....if they get a negative review it is mean and unfair?....So when judges on the field give what can be percieved as negative reviews, is that equally "mean and unfair"...criticism, as long as it is in good taste is part of our American experience.....as I have said before, those who actually march on the field expect and probably encourage this type of review.....no offense, but your post is a little childish (IMO)

[felixh]

I would rather play in an empty stadium than play for a crowd of bitter old farts that want to tell me that what I do is not drum corps anymore because I march with a Bb trumpet or because my corps uses amps. If that was some sort of threat... It doesnt bother me one bit. I'm also sure that you speak for DCI's entire fan base... not.

-

Now that's a line in the sand if I have ever seen one....playing empty stadiums is no fun, with or without old farts! B)

[felixh]

IMO...

I don't think you WILL play to empty stadiums...DCI's audience is growing, and DCI itself is doing a lot of marketing things 'right' lately to keep it on track.

Legacy fans are not leaving in hordes as you might think from reading some posts here. Shows I've attended have had a good mix of old and newer fans.

Do some leave? Sure, as has always happened. For all sorts of reasons, including not liking the corps shows anymore. It's too bad they can't accept the new ideas, but it's their right not to. Personally, this drum corps member/teacher/judge/fan since 1964 still loves it...DCI, DCA, alumni..you name it.

Mike

I think you are still promoting your views, which is your right Mike, and ignoring the thread....there is a difference between corps bashing and a negative review....as a judge you should know this....you have at times given negative reviews as well if you are a judge so you should understand....many here do accept new ideas, but are not convinced that all new ideas are immune from negative reviews....you do a disservice to some of the youth who post here by promoting the us vs them mentality....as an adult you should understand that this is not an accurate reflection of life....criticism comes and goes...some negative, some constructive

B)

[felixh]

Its truly a shame that dudes is such a hothouse flower that he or she cant abide anything that may put a dent in his or her evidently very fragile self esteem.

Here's a little nugget for you dudes for you to file away somewhere: Most of us have been where you are so wecan say that in general, when youre a part of something its very different to see it critically. In the case of drumcorps sometimes it takes years and emotional distance to see that some of the criticisms of your group are often valid. This is a fairly informed population here on DCP, most with experience in and around the activity. Most of whats said even when its contrary comes from an informed perspective. I daresay the kids marching now are the ones with the least amount of it. And this in no way demeans or devalues what you do, it simply points out that perspective and experience and maturity dont usually have shortcuts.

All of us honor and respect the effort and energy that kids in drumcorps today put into it. Many of us are still doing it as part of staffs or in DCA corps. But as the paying customer, the group to which you look for approval, we do have the right to offer our opinions on the finished product. That some would think we dont is unfathomable to me. And if it seems a little harsh to you well all I can say is nothing in life affords you the unconditional approval you seem to think youre entitled to in drumcorps. Wait a few years and see how non judgmental life is, youll will be in for a rude shock.

In any case, if someone says something about your corps you dont like, tell him theyre full of it. Just dont try to tell them they cant say it.

I taught my son the same lesson last year.....it's all out of love!

B)

[vintage rifle]

We have to remember that the current marching members and recent age-outs are from the same generation. These kids are products of the "everybody wins" mindset. Hence, if someone has anything even slightly negative to say of them, their group, or their beliefs, then that is a personal confrontation. Since they rarely have to acknowledge losing or negativity (read critisism), they strike back.

"Don't they know how hard the kids have worked???" Yes. Most people here worked that hard for years. Did we suck? One year in particular, yes. Did the show suck? Yes. We knew when our program was awful, and if someone said that, we agreed. But did we then need to pack up and quit. Hardly. We did our best with the program the managers gave us. Critiques of the program, music, or concept was not a personal affront to the members.

Many corps have 'let me down'. They did not have a show that stood up to my expectations. Often that is because I had high expectations to begin with, developed through many years of excellence from that corps. I refuse to praise mediocracy merely because some whiner might feel bad.

Div II/III are immature? Please. Read the first post for a more accurate definition.