We Have Met the Enemy - And They is Us?

[felixh]

I always feel bad when I wade into the souvie area and everyone is crowded around the stands for the big two corps in appearance while the smaller corps -- who likely need the sales the most -- are devoid of browsers. Anyone who's ever worked one of these care to share what this is like? I actually find it embarassing and a little heartbreaking :(

I think it is actually cooler to buy and wear a t-shirt from a lesser known corps,....but that's just me!

[felixh]

Elphie,

That's a great soundbyte but it doesn't explain how kids in corps that have won in the recent past claim the BEST year they experienced in their corps was a year they DIDN'T win.. even though they marched both years (or multiple years)

Go figure. :) I don't believe all kids want to win. I believe a lot of them do.. but more of them just want to have a great experience and push their limits -- sometimes doing that wins. The kids go where they expect they can find that.

Nessa

WWE

Going back a few decades, most of my better memories and learning experiences were found while marching in the Anaheim Kingsmen 77-78 ( the rebuilding years)....lots of young kids,....I was all of 16 years old....the only reason I left and auditioned for the Blue Devils in the Fall of 78 was because the Kingsmen were not fielding a corops that year....there were many ex-Kingsmen members and instructors up in Concord and it seemed like the logical next step......I won a ring in 79 with BD but the Kingsmen will always be my corps B)

[SCVsopAaron]

Ok, I'm not gunna say much, but when people say "Hey, I wanna march drum corps," they don't typically mean "I wanna march a small corps with little funding, not top of the line staff, low show attendance and a small touring schedule which may not even come close to where I live." I think the great majority see drum corps as the top 12 corps, and everyone and their dog pushes for those corps. I know I did. I started off with Colts and then went to SCV. It was a natural progression because I wanted to work myself into the top corps. No shame to those lower corps, but most people REALLY don't want to stay there for 6-7 years or something like that. They want to move up to the cream of the crop. It's like school or something like that. You don't want to stay in Kindergarten forever. (Not saying the lower corps are, but you get my drift) Also, I know that as I progressed on my instrument, I wanted to surround myself with musicians either equal to my level or better, so naturally I moved around. I wanted to better myself and I went to a corps which I felt offered a different experience my needs. I see the trend I described as VERY typical of the average corps member. Just my thoughts, but I see a DECREASE in the number of corps, and I personally don't have a big problem with that.

EDIT: I guess I did say a lot. heh.

Edited December 15, 2005 by SCVsopAaron

[Orpheus]

That's sort of what I was trying to say earlier ... it's not about winning, per se, it's about the sum total of the experience that the corps members think they're going to get out of being in corps. Or rather, the experience that they expect that they're going to get. People who think they have what it takes to participate at or near the top level try and join a corps that they think will give them what they want. And there's a lot of different factors that feed into that.

Edited December 15, 2005 by Orpheus

[TommySopranoContra]

I always feel bad when I wade into the souvie area and everyone is crowded around the stands for the big two corps in appearance while the smaller corps -- who likely need the sales the most -- are devoid of browsers. Anyone who's ever worked one of these care to share what this is like? I actually find it embarassing and a little heartbreaking :(

Me too.

[felixh]

Ok, I'm not gunna say much, but when people say "Hey, I wanna march drum corps," they don't typically mean "I wanna march a small corps with little funding, not top of the line staff, low show attendance and a small touring schedule which may not even come close to where I live." I think the great majority see drum corps as the top 12 corps, and everyone and their dog pushes for those corps. I know I did. I started off with Colts and then went to SCV. It was a natural progression because I wanted to work myself into the top corps. No shame to those lower corps, but most people REALLY don't want to stay there for 6-7 years or something like that. They want to move up to the cream of the crop. It's like school or something like that. You don't want to stay in Kindergarten forever. (Not saying the lower corps are, but you get my drift) Also, I know that as I progressed on my instrument, I wanted to surround myself with musicians either equal to my level or better, so naturally I moved around. I wanted to better myself and I went to a corps which I felt offered a different experience my needs. I see the trend I described as VERY typical of the average corps member. Just my thoughts, but I see a DECREASE in the number of corps, and I personally don't have a big problem with that.

EDIT: I guess I did say a lot. heh.

I have no prblem with your view and can even relate to it.....but there is nothing like starting with a corps and rising along with them....there are the good times and the bad times, but they are all shared experiences,...a sense of comaraderie.....I am not saying you cannot have that taking your approach,...it definitely depends on the individual

[Matthew]

I have no prblem with your view and can even relate to it.....but there is nothing like starting with a corps and rising along with them....there are the good times and the bad times, but they are all shared experiences,...a sense of comaraderie.....I am not saying you cannot have that taking your approach,...it definitely depends on the individual

I agree with you and Aaron. It took those top groups time to get where they are, people stayed in those corps because they felt something. I look at corps like my alumni corps (Seattle) and Capital Regiment, and think in years time, they will be right there with Bluecoats, who used to be in the tier as the two corps I mentioned. If people stop treating the "lower" corps as feeder corps, those "lower" corps will definitely grow in talent. That's just my opinion.

[Jeff Ream]

the problem with sticking with a corps for years is that if they dont see growth, i.e higher scores, they get frustrated and jump ship.

D1 is at its most competitive from top to bottom since the early 80's. It's tougher to make that jump from say 15th to 10th than it was when Crown did it just 10 years ago( actually i think it was 17 to 11 for them).

the key here is to find those kids that stay with D2/3 corps, and have them advertise why they stay there. How many kids in ECJ or Spartans have years of experience there? a lot.

in fact i'll say that if you look at the upcoming Blue Stars return to D1, you'll see a large number of kids who stuck it out all these years. What, they were D3....3 years ago?

find out why those kids stayed. advertise that on PBS.

Edited December 15, 2005 by jeffsnewjetta

[ssorrell]

I agree with you and Aaron. It took those top groups time to get where they are, people stayed in those corps because they felt something. I look at corps like my alumni corps (Seattle) and Capital Regiment, and think in years time, they will be right there with Bluecoats, who used to be in the tier as the two corps I mentioned. If people stop treating the "lower" corps as feeder corps, those "lower" corps will definitely grow in talent. That's just my opinion.

Look at the top corps now...they've been at the top of the game for 20+ years...EACH of them. They've proven consistently that they can produce corps that push towards the top each and every year with very few exceptions.

Now, look at D2 and D3 corps...this is not meant as a slam against them, but some of those corps have stayed stagnant for the same 20+ years. They've remained small, localized corps that are content on staying where they are, filling the needs of lesser experienced and younger musicians (which is GREAT, BTW!). Many kids are happy sticking with a D2/3 corps throughout their marching career, but like some have said, some aspire to move on to greater challenges. Even if they stuck it out in the lower divisions, what are the chances that the corps will make a move up as a result? Further, if every member in the lower divisions remained in their corps until they aged out, the experience of the corps would no doubt grow, giving them more mature members, but if the design staff doesn't stay on a steady growth pattern to equal that of the members, then what good has it done? That could very well happen...or it might not. A few corps have done it and made the move up. More corps have not.

[elphaba01]

Elphie,

That's a great soundbyte but it doesn't explain how kids in corps that have won in the recent past claim the BEST year they experienced in their corps was a year they DIDN'T win.. even though they marched both years (or multiple years)

Go figure. :) I don't believe all kids want to win. I believe a lot of them do.. but more of them just want to have a great experience and push their limits -- sometimes doing that wins. The kids go where they expect they can find that.

Nessa

WWE

Hello Nessarose:

Great, again to hear from you sister. As young witches growing up in drum corps, we saw that a persons membership in a particular junior corps was "changed" only if they were kicked out, or the corps folded. Rarely (although it did happen) did someone bolt for "Greener Pastures".

Many "Circuits" such as the CYO, Greater New York and the Penn-Jersey had "release" programs that prevented "Corps Hopping" between member units. Those days, sadly, along with the Ozma, are long gone.

The "Free Agency" in todays "Junior Corps" is rampant, with huge membership turnovers/age outs each and every season. The "Movement" of persons is almost always in an "Upward" direction, as people will 'audition' for the corps that they feel have the best chance to 'win'. Loyalty has been replaced by "Winning".

If the "Original/Founding" memberships of corps such as the Blue Devils or Santa Clara Vanguards had not "Toughed it out" in the corps early seasons of 'Less than spectacular" placements, and "Hopped" to corps like the Kingsmen or Casper Troopers, those corps would not be the Championship contenders that they are today.

Stay in touch sister....

Elphie

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