BlueR36 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I can only think of two corps in DCI hostory that have gone from being bottm 6 corps to making themselves a permenant home in the top 5 - Cavaliers and Star Of Indiana. Both of those corps DID do it rather quickly but it took being UNDOUBTABLY better than even some of the corps that were still placing higher than them in order for them to prove themselves. Factually incorrect ... Cadets (by any name): 72-13th ... 73-17th ... 74-19th ... 75-11th in Finals ... 76-14th ... 77-12th in Finals ... 78-14th ... 79-16th ... 80-10th ... then 7th in 81, third in 82 and then three straight championships from 83 to 85, with a fourth title in 87 and fifth in 1990. Not saying Bluecoats are going to win it all anytime soon, just saying there was another example ... which makes two in the 1980s, one in the 1990s ... any in the 2000s??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn8o Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Factually incorrect ...Cadets (by any name): 72-13th ... 73-17th ... 74-19th ... 75-11th in Finals ... 76-14th ... 77-12th in Finals ... 78-14th ... 79-16th ... 80-10th ... then 7th in 81, third in 82 and then three straight championships from 83 to 85, with a fourth title in 87 and fifth in 1990. Not saying Bluecoats are going to win it all anytime soon, just saying there was another example ... which makes two in the 1980s, one in the 1990s ... any in the 2000s??? Correct, but I noted that I was mostly talking about the last 25 years. OK, if you must - yes, the Cadets were 7th in 81. So, go ahead and count it. So, that's three. Out of HOW many that have cracked into the top 5 for a year or two in the last 25? 6 or 7? Again, not very good odds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueR36 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 No, they have established themselves as a 7-8th place corps. It takes MORE than one year to establish themselves as a 5th place corps. They simply HAVEN'T done so yet.That's a ridiculous statement. Like I said, there is a HUGE political gap between 4th and 5th place and NOBODY (go look at the scores archive on corpsreps) has been able to break past 5th place other than those corps who have won since 1981. It is a HUGE stretch. Again, not saying it's impossible. Just saying that it's ridiculous to not consider it a stretch when NOBODY has been able to do it in the last 25 years. But, again and again and again. I'm not saying that the Bluecoats can't do it. BLUECOATS CAN DO IT...I'm just saying that it's not going to be as easy as you think. Established at 7-8th place?? Then how do you explain 6th and 5th the last two years? Isn't two years "MORE than one year"? Yes, there is/was/has been a HUGE "politcal" gap between fourth and fifth ... but SCV dropped to 8th last year, didn't they? And Phantom broke into the top four, didn't they? I understand that you're saying "Bluecoats can do it" and even hope (although you DID march Freelancers back in 1991 -- grrrr) that you hope the Bluecoats do break into the upper echelon ... but I NEVER said it was going to be easy. It hasn't been easy for them getting to sixth and fifth, and getting into fourth will be exponentially harder than those two moves ... but it's easier getting to fourth from fifth than getting to fourth from, say, 8th or 10th ... that's all I'm saying -- they are right there, and if anyone is going to do it, they're currently in the pole position. 2005 was good for DCI with the shakeup of the long-standing "top four" (BD-Cadets-Cavies-SCV) ... let's hope it continues!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Brady Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 (edited) See, that's what I was trying to say earlier in the thread. Quite a few bottom 7 corps have cracked into the top 5 for a year or two over the decades. Bridgemen, 2th Lancers, Suncoast Sound, Spirit, Glassmen and Boston to name a few. But, NONE of those corps were ever able to make themselves a mainstay. Not to slide the Bluecoats but it's going to take some real consistancy to convince me that they will be able to stay up there. Let alone place any HIGHER than 5th (which only TWO of the above mentioned corps ever have done - Spirit and 27th Lancers). Again, not to slide anybody, but it just isn't that easy. I sure would applaud them though if they ever did make the top 5 a permenant home.Just to keep the facts correct, make that 3........Bridgemen 3rd, 1980... 1st. Blue Devils 90.60 2nd 27th Lancers 90.25 3rd Bridgemen 90.05 :) Edited March 21, 2006 by Bob Brady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rut-roh Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Yeah, for a period of about ten or so years, there were a few corps who shook things up and broke through the wall. But the last corps to break through the wall and actually stay there was Star in 1990. That's 16 years ago. An awful long time. Good luck Bluecoats. Looking forward to your show this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn8o Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 (edited) Just to keep the facts correct, make that 3........Bridgemen 3rd, 1980... 1st. Blue Devils 90.60 2nd 27th Lancers 90.25 3rd Bridgemen 90.05 :) I mentioned them in that post and meant to include them in the top 4 list but went brain dead for a minute. Thanks for the correction. :) Edited March 21, 2006 by torn8o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Brady Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I made mention of them in a post up above. But note, in the context of the paragraph you responded to, I was talking since "1981" and even SAID so. :)My bad! didn't catch the "1981" part! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torn8o Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 (edited) Established at 7-8th place?? Then how do you explain 6th and 5th the last two years? Isn't two years "MORE than one year"? OK, for 6th place. Sure. I'll grant them that one. :) Now, let's see if they can break the odds and make the top 5 second year in a row. I know, Glassmen did it. But again, look at where they are at now. Yes, there is/was/has been a HUGE "politcal" gap between fourth and fifth ... but SCV dropped to 8th last year, didn't they? SCV dropped because they had a bad year. It's not the norm for them. If you think they are going to let it happen a second year in a row, your in for a real awakening. And Phantom broke into the top four, didn't they? WAYYYYY different scenario :) ("broke in") Phantom has BEEN in the top 4 MANY...MANY....MANY years and have even WON it. They had a dry spell of rough years in the late 90s but I would HARDLY consider them "a bottom 6 corps breaking into the top 4". They were established as a top 4 contender LONG ago, my friend. They've already PAID their dues and proven themselves and they did it...OVER 25 years ago. I understand that you're saying "Bluecoats can do it" and even hope (although you DID march Freelancers back in 1991 -- grrrr) that you hope the Bluecoats do break into the upper echelon LOL. Yes. :) I would love to see it. :) And my Freelancer years have nothing to do with it. :) (BTW, psssst....take a listen to our hornline in 91 :P ) ... but I NEVER said it was going to be easy. It hasn't been easy for them getting to sixth and fifth, and getting into fourth will be exponentially harder than those two moves ... You brought up an interesting point later in this paragraph and I accidentally deleted it. You said something about going from 5th to 4th "not being as hard as going from 8th to 4th". Actually, it MAY be safe to say that going from 5th to 4th is like going from 8th to 5th. Seriously. that's how big I think the gap is between 4th and 5th. Edited March 21, 2006 by torn8o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecoats88 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 You brought up an interesting point later in this paragraph and I accidentally deleted it. You said something about going from 5th to 4th "not being as hard as going from 8th to 4th". Actually, it MAY be safe to say that going from 5th to 4th is like going from 8th to 5th. Seriously. that's how big I think the gap is between 45h and 5th. Actually the gap between 4th and 5th is 8 tenths of a point. History is great but the reality is that the Bluecoats were .8 from 4th place. Now with that being said - this is a new year and that .8 means nothing this year. But as I have observed over the years there usually is a gap in the finals scores which seperates the top corps from the next tier of corps. Usually this gap is in the 1.5 - 2 point range and the Bluecoats are normally on the wrong side of it. However, last season the Bluecoats were on the right side of the gap between the top corps and the next tier. Hopefully they will stay on the right side of that gap this year as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themesofd Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 the only reason bluecoats pushed into the top 5 is beacaus scv was absolutely horrible this summer. you can't rely on other corps to be terrible you must beat them at their A game. just my opinion. for example if ....cadets folded, pr changed the entire staff and decided to do a blood sweat and tears show, bd lost their drum majors right before finals and the guard came up missing and the cavaliers got lost on the way to finals, yes the Bluecoats might have a chance at the title. woohooo! i don't think scv will stay out of the top 5 much longer. i hoping last year was a fluke. i love the bluecoats. i marched bluecoats. but the literature just isn't top 4 or legit top 5 worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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