2006 top 12 standings

[Phantom&Phitch]

1 - Cadets

2 - Phantom

3 - Blue Devils

4 - Cavaliers

5 - SCV

6 - Madison

7 - Crown

8 - Bluecoats

9 - Boston

10 - BK

11 - Colts

12 - Crossmen

[bluecoats88]

A little history of the gap between the top and the next tier.

1998

4th 96.2 above gap

5th 92.8

6th 91.9

1999

4th 96.4 above gap

5th 93.7

6th 93.7

2000

4th 94.7 above gap

5th 92.35

6th 92.0

2001

2nd 97.6 (tie) above gap

4th 95.35

5th 94.3

6th 91.9

2002

4th 95.65 above gap

5th 92.4 (tie)

7th 91.5

2003

3rd 97.1 above gap

4th 94.75

5th 94.7 another gap

6th 90.95

2004

4th 95.6 above gap

5th 93.575

6th 92.125

2005

4th 95.25

5th 94.45 above gap

6th 92.625

other than a couple years the gap usually falls between 4th and 5th place, however last year, 2001, and 2003 the gap was after 5th place.

just some interesting info

[torn8o]

Actually the gap between 4th and 5th is 8 tenths of a point. History is great but the reality is that the Bluecoats were .8 from 4th place.

I knew somebody was going to bring up "scores". I don't make anything of the ".8" because I STILL think that there is a "political" gap between 4th and 5th. And, THAT gap makes ".8" much bigger than if it were Bluecoats trying pick up ".8" from Crown. We are talking about them getting the ".8" from the only corps to have over a decade's worth of championship wins here. :) I'd say, that's a pretty BIG ".8".

[BlueR36]

Your Freelancer years have EVERYTHING to do with it!!! :P

I did a little research which I think backs up my "consistency" argument in favor of the Bluecoats ...

The Bluecoats worked their way up to fifth by finishing 8-7-7-6 from 2001 to 2004. No big jumps there, just a consistent build.

Yes, Glassmen did a great job (well, I didn't like them) by taking fifth back2back in 98-99 and again in 2001, but they jumped up there from 13th in 96 to 8th in 97. And they were a little inconsistent by falling back to 8th in 2000 and 2002, and back out of finals at 14th in 2003.

Boston was 5th in 2000 and 2002, but getting there was a HUGE jump. They had never even made Finals until 10th in 99, taking 15th in 97 and 98, and 16th in 96. From a second straight 15th to 5th in two years is huge ... throw in falling to 9th in 2001 and after taking 6th in 2003, back2back 9th in 04-05.

Blue Knights took 6th (not 5th, but close) in 99 and 2000, after 9th in 97 and 98 and 12th in 96 (missed in 95 after taking 7th in 94, which was their best up to that point). BUT, they then missed Finals from 01-03.

What am I saying? Glassmen, Boston and Blue Knights -- none of them were as consistent in their building up to finishing 5th (and 6th) as the Bluecoats have been. Will it mean anything? We'll see. Those others each stayed there at least twice over at least a three-year period, so Bluecoats are part-way there (6th in 2004, 5th in 2005 is already better than BK's best years; matches Boston's best year in reverse order).

The point that there is a bigger gap between fourth and fifth than, say, fifth and 15th makes some sense. Obviously, scores don't match your theory (Bluecoats were only .8 behind BD at Finals last year, which was closer than BD to third or Bluecoats to 6th). But consistently building to that point is (hopefully) a better way to climbing those last barriers and sticking around for a while!!

Back to 1991 -- at least you guys were close to us before beating us in Dallas. We had you by 2-3 points much of the year, but we had BK by better than 4 points a couple of times. Then, all of a sudden at quarterfinals, you both passed us. Bad memories man, bad.

Edited March 21, 2006 by BlueR36

[BlueR36]

Phantom has BEEN in the top 4 MANY...MANY....MANY years and have even WON it. They had a dry spell of rough years in the late 90s but I would HARDLY consider them "a bottom 6 corps breaking into the top 4". They were established as a top 4 contender LONG ago, my friend. They've already PAID their dues and proven themselves and they did it...OVER 25 years ago.

Yes -- Phantom is a different story with a great history ... but until 2005, I do believe the top four at Finals had been BD-SCV-Cavie-Cadets in one order or another for seven straight years ... so, while they don't fit your definition of "bottom 6 breaking into top 4" they most certainly did break up the top four last year, with help from an off SCV year.

Let's see if PR can do it again, too, eh?

[Phantom&Phitch]

Yes -- Phantom is a different story with a great history ... but until 2005, I do believe the top four at Finals had been BD-SCV-Cavie-Cadets in one order or another for seven straight years ... so, while they don't fit your definition of "bottom 6 breaking into top 4" they most certainly did break up the top four last year, with help from an off SCV year.

Let's see if PR can do it again, too, eh?

they were 4th in 03....

[torn8o]

I did a little research which I think backs up my "consistency" argument in favor of the Bluecoats ...

The Bluecoats worked their way up to fifth by finishing 8-7-7-6 from 2001 to 2004. No big jumps there, just a consistent build.

Yes, Glassmen did a great job (well, I didn't like them) by taking fifth back2back in 98-99 and again in 2001, but they jumped up there from 13th in 96 to 8th in 97. And they were a little inconsistent by falling back to 8th in 2000 and 2002, and back out of finals at 14th in 2003.

Boston was 5th in 2000 and 2002, but getting there was a HUGE jump. They had never even made Finals until 10th in 99, taking 15th in 97 and 98, and 16th in 96. From a second straight 15th to 5th in two years is huge ... throw in falling to 9th in 2001 and after taking 6th in 2003, back2back 9th in 04-05.

Blue Knights took 6th (not 5th, but close) in 99 and 2000, after 9th in 97 and 98 and 12th in 96 (missed in 95 after taking 7th in 94, which was their best up to that point). BUT, they then missed Finals from 01-03.

What am I saying? Glassmen, Boston and Blue Knights -- none of them were as consistent in their building up to finishing 5th (and 6th) as the Bluecoats have been. Will it mean anything? We'll see. Those others each stayed there at least twice over at least a three-year period, so Bluecoats are part-way there (6th in 2004, 5th in 2005 is already better than BK's best years; matches Boston's best year in reverse order).

The point that there is a bigger gap between fourth and fifth than, say, fifth and 15th makes some sense. Obviously, scores don't match your theory (Bluecoats were only .8 behind BD at Finals last year, which was closer than BD to third or Bluecoats to 6th). But consistently building to that point is (hopefully) a better way to climbing those last barriers and sticking around for a while!!

You make some great points here. But, my I give you another example to Ponder?

...Crossmen

1987 - 16th

1988 - 14th

1989 - 12th

1990 - 7th

1991 - 8th

1992 - 6th

Another steady climb (with only a slight drop in 91). I can remember people saying (even myself) that they wre going to win in a few years. Where are they now? Struggling to stay in finals.

I REALLY DO....HOPE...that the Bluecoats situation will be different. It would be refreshing to see a new PERMENANT face in the top 5. But, it's going to be tough and they still have a LOT to prove if it's going to happen. They have probably the hardest road ahead of them than any other corps right now. They are not on a place where they "have nothing to lose". They have a LOT to loose if they are not carefull which is why I fear anyone being too quick to count them as a certainty in the top 5 (which is what everyone seems to be doing right now).

Edited March 21, 2006 by torn8o

[gellio]

01> Blue Devils

02> Phantom Regiment

03> Cadets

04> Madison Scouts/Cavaliers

05> Cavaliers/Madison Scouts

06> Santa Clara Vanguard

07> Carolina Crown

08> Bluecoats

09> Blue Knights

10> Boston Crusaders

11> Crossmen

12> Spirit

[monoemono]

They have a LOT to loose if they are not carefull which is why I fear anyone being too quick to count them as a certainty in the top 5 (which is what everyone seems to be doing right now).

Ahh, the pondering of pre-season! This is as good as the NFL draft talk, except we don't even know who the players are going to be!

I certainly want to see Coats jump up a few more this year, but we'll see. I remeber people saying things about certain corps "taking ring sizes at the door" for their early camps--only to have said corps have a very off year. So there's no telling...

Having said that....

1. BD

2. Phantom

3. Cavies

4. Cadets

5. SCV

6. Bluecoats

7. Scouts

8. Blue Knights

9. Glassmen

10. Carolina Crown

11. Crossmen

12. Spirit

For Coats to jump, I see one of two things that need to happen.

1. Development of a very distinct visual style (e.g., Cadets, Cavies)

2. Pull off a monster musical program (e.g., BD--never liked their drill, *BLEAH!*)

Of these, I see #2 as more plausable scenario in the near future, though their visual program has improved leaps and bounds in the past decade.

EDIT: D*** IT, I left out Boston! 6-12 is the hardest part!!!! Who do I bump????

9. Boston

and adjust accordingly....

Edited March 21, 2006 by monoemono

[crossmen82]

1 BD ( 6 year it has to happen)

2 Cavies

3 Madison

4 Phantom

5 SCV

6 Cadets

7 Bluecoats

8 Crown

9 Boston

10 Glassmen

11 Blue Knights

12 Magic

Ok, I will go with every corp up until 9th place - Boston. I seriously hope you are kidding about Magic coming in 12th over Spirit and Crossmen. Be for real!!!