Why can't The Cadets ( and other Drumcorps ) just be considered Ar

[SCdrumcorpsfan]

Awesome.......this is what I wanted.....different thoughtful opinions........Great.

I do see many people's point about various famous artist creating for money or for people's enjoyment doesn't disqualify them as being a "true artist".....ex mozart, da vinci. I agree.

I also definitely agree that Ideally an artist would want their art to pay the bills, make the world a better place, while also quenching their creative fire burning inside of them.

I realize that one would always want all three to occur simultaneously, but we all know that it can't always be. Some times the bills just need to be paid..... There definitely needs to be a medium. No question. I hope DCI as a whole finds that medium soon.

SO.........I have decided that is my personal belief that some-times harsh criticism is ok......

I mean EVERYONE can say ANYTHING they want......of course they can......but I think unproductive harsh criticism and many pre-conceived notions should be kept to a minimal.....

Why do I believe this?

Because We (the DCI community) need to leave room for change. DCI can be better than it is today, but only if we allow it to change.

Leaving room for change is the most difficult thing of all, because you are putting in danger what you know and love...............and the possibility that what you love might change or might be lost forever can be very hard to swallow.

But the truth is that IMO great things have come from leaving room for change.....

IMO, I think Front Ensembles are the greatest asset to be added to the activity since its inception.......but When front ensemble were passed........ALOT of people were very unhappy.

IMO, I think the switch to Bb instruments gave many more musicians the comfort needed to attempt drumcorp. No one wants to have to learn new fingering if they don't have to..... Although, Bb instruments help spread DCI to many other people..........When It was passed......ALOT of people were again........very upset.

I think you see my point. DCI can be better than it is today. I will not say what is better or not, but I will again say that it can be better.

I ask everyone to just allow a little bit of room for DCI to change. Of course you (plural) can't really effectively stop it from changing, but I do believe that the powers that be do care and listen once in a while. Even if it is done subconsciencely. <----I hope I spelled that right!!! B)

There is a very sound philosphy that can be paraphrased as "You can't say that you truly don't like something you have never experienced". I agree with this statement. I will leave my scattered thoughts there.......post on.....

Edited March 3, 2006 by SCdrumcorpsfan

[bawker]

I also definitely agree that Ideally an artist would want their art to pay the bills, make the world a better place, while also quenching their creative fire burning inside of them.

I realize that one would always want all three to occur simultaneously, but we all know that it can't always be. Some times the bills just need to be paid..... There definitely needs to be a medium. No question. I hope DCI as a whole finds that medium soon.

..and that, right there, is the taproot of almost every argument on the board.

[GMichael1230]

I read through some of these Cadets 06 Ballad Threads and I also came across some posts concerning other very questionable design decisions regarding some other corps programs. I started to laugh.......I was like.....ARE SOME OF THESE PEOPLE SERIOUS!?!?!?!?!? DO THEY REALLY THINK THEIR OPINIONS MATTER THAT MUCH?!?!?!

Again.......I stress.......it is THEIR show. Let Artists be Artists. What do ya say DCP?

LOL !! throughout this entire diatribe, did you stop to tell yourself the same exact thing ???

Also, you are mistaken if you think drum corps, or "art" can exist without the fans...try playing to empty stadiums all summer, it aint gonna happen.

~G~

[Triple Forte]

(Intially I was going to place this in the "Brace Yourselves...Cadets with Voice" thread, but I realized that this issue goes way beyond The Cadets constant push to the edge of infinity....)

Ok....So.... lets speed up my point.... to make it simple.....my viewpoint as an artist is............If you don't like my art..........**** you!!!!

I have no problem with this. But don't yell at fans if they don't clap loudly or if they boo and make opinionated comments after a corps performance.....thats THEIR right......(I don't do any of the aforementioned by the way)

Never forget that you can have a Drumcorp without fans......but you can't have Drumcorp fans without a Drumcorp.

I doubt we will ever see a day (During our lifetimes) without drum corps. There are two parades that I attend each year that features great, small drum corps..... The Drum Corps activity is made up of a WHOLE BUNCH of corps that have nothing to do with DCI........

Once someone starts making things primarily according to others people's desires you know what he/she becomes?!?!?!?!?

AN ENTERTAINER........ who only exist for other people's amusement.

Drumcorp for me is much more than just entertainment for fans and alumni.

What about DCI rules and judging ??? All DCI corps have to follow the same rules..........

Again.......I stress.......it is THEIR show. Let Artists be Artists. What do ya say DCP?

Fine with me.......I just hope that the "Art" they create generates a lot of great cheering and ovations from the crowd. If I spent the time and money these members do in drum corps........I would NOT be happy with polite applause all season long. In most interviews corps members take part in it seems that they talk about how great it is to perform in front of screaming excited fans.....hopefully the art fills this desire

Triple Forte

Edited March 4, 2006 by Triple Forte

[GMichael1230]

As long as they're within the rules, they can do what they want. All they have to do is answer to the 8 Guys in Green. If voice is bad (and I happen to think it is), it doesn't matter. The BOD has to decide it is.

As The Cadets play within the rules, the discourse about why they are doing a new thing, and how it will play out should indeed be encouraged, not confined. I personally hope that it isn't rewarded as good GE, since the voicing to me doesn't really match well together. It's pretty Enya to me, and seems like oil & water. That's opinion. That's certainly not stopping the Cadets from their plans.

Not to be uncivil about it, but did you expect something other than discussion on a discussion board?

Exactly ! well said.

~G~

[FrankA]

i dont know why but my quotes arent working

anyway responding to ekleves last post

what the point was is that if you dont listening to the Fans and Alumni no one would show up at your show because they wouldnt be interested

and the other part

she ment that if created a show that no one liked at all and the didnt cheer or clap would you want to expirence that again

[mobrien]

As someone who makes a living working full-time in the professional performing arts, can I point out a basic problem with the thesis of the thread? that somehow, if you're an "artist" you can expect to operate free of critical or public scrutiny of what you do.

You can't.

People will criticize what you do no matter what it is you're doing.

And I don't know of any serious performing artist, writer, composer, or designer who has an attiitude of "if you don't like what I do, than screw you!" Most professionals are interested in trying to find ways to connect with the audience for their artform, not to simply go off on a tangent and create whatever it is they want without any concern for whether people 'get it' or not. Bluntly, if I've directed something and I see that a moment isn't connecting with the audience during previews, I see it as my responsibilty to try and fix it. I don't sit there like a petulant high-school "artiste" and blame the audience for being too stupid to get what I was trying to do.

The notion of 'pure creation' or 'art for art's sake' is pubescent nonsense, and isn't seen much in the real world, in my experience.

[ACM]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc. No corps has to use Bb simply because they're now legal. You say corps in the top 12 choose to use Bb to stay competitive. The question to ask then is why do Bb horns fare better in competition? When the rule for Bb passed, did score sheets change?

How many comparisons can you draw? There was very little time for the top three to compete against each other in different keys....in fact Im not even sure that they did. And I will point out the 2004 div II champions are still in G bugles...beating almost every other Div II corps that was in Bb.

Myself and others just really do not want to see Drum Corps turn into marching band. Hopkin's has stated in the past he thinks that that is the direction that the activity should take. I dont want to watch the Cadets or Santa Clara or BD and think at any point that I might be watching Lassiter High School. As I said, if Cadets want to sing...fine......as long as Hopkins leaves the rest of DCI out of it. (Given his track record...I doubt he will)

[FrankA]

i agree with you there

[SCdrumcorpsfan]

As someone who makes a living working full-time in the professional performing arts, can I point out a basic problem with the thesis of the thread? that somehow, if you're an "artist" you can expect to operate free of critical or public scrutiny of what you do.

You can't.

People will criticize what you do no matter what it is you're doing.

And I don't know of any serious performing artist, writer, composer, or designer who has an attiitude of "if you don't like what I do, than screw you!" Most professionals are interested in trying to find ways to connect with the audience for their artform, not to simply go off on a tangent and create whatever it is they want without any concern for whether people 'get it' or not. Bluntly, if I've directed something and I see that a moment isn't connecting with the audience during previews, I see it as my responsibilty to try and fix it. I don't sit there like a petulant high-school "artiste" and blame the audience for being too stupid to get what I was trying to do.

The notion of 'pure creation' or 'art for art's sake' is pubescent nonsense, and isn't seen much in the real world, in my experience.

I agree with you that critics will always be there.........

When I talk about the mentality of "if you don't like my art screw you", I do understand that almost always the notion doesn't get to that extreme. I believe this notion in extreme principle. Look, I am just saying that I believe an artist should make the integrity of want they create priority #1. You want people to enjoy your art, but it can get to a point where enough is enough. If you couldn't make a living creating the art that YOU WANT to make........I believe you would eventually just say to #### with this; this is not what I want to do anymore.

I know that in this world you need money. I understand that. You said that you are a making a living working full time in the professional performing arts. I applaud you for that because for many it is not an easy thing to do.

You see ( not saying it like you didn't already know this ) your welfare DEPENDS on the public's acceptance of your art. I am not bashing that, but I AM saying that in princple that puts some restrictions on what you do as an artist; even if only subconsciencely. You have to feel the pressure. IF you don't, I think you are one of the very very fortunate artist that can say "what I want to create is almost exactly what the people want.

I see your points, and I respect your opinion, but I don't think that you would disagree that If you didn't have to worry about WORKING as an artist, then you might feel a little more free to try something different or maybe something profoundly controversial.

The independent film circuit helps movie makers shoulder this burden. I am absolutely sure that there are great concepts for movies that don't even get close to being decently produced..........WHY?!?!?!?!?!?

Because "the people" might not like it. I understand why this happens......but I am sure that we have missed out on many a great movies because of the fear that "the people" won't like it and because of that millions of dollars would be lost. Probably a good business move......but bad for the evolution of art.

Yes. Artist want people to enjoy their art, and nothing is wrong with skewing your art to the side of public acceptance. I would also like to add that getting financial recompense for your art IS and SHOULD be wanted and is usually neccessary for the artist to live in today's societies. However, I do believe that if most artist didn't have to worry about the negative impacts of people not taking to their creations, most might have a sensation of a creative burden being lifted off of them.

To quote the movie DOGMA......Depending on public approval of your art to survive is like having a repo man always standing over you and whispering "do it and I will ****ing spank you!!!!" :P

OK....I know I ramble.....but here's the last bit........There are faculty on my School of Music that are SERIOUSLY LIKE 50,000 TIMES AS TALENTED AS LIL' JON. but I am pretty sure that I will never see them remotely do what lil' jon does as well as many of the pop singers of today. Could they??? Some yes. I really believe some of them could make it in today's pop music world in some degree or level of usefulness...... Why wouldn't they????? Artistic Integrity. ( not bashing lil' jon by the way...... YEEEAAAHHH!!!!! ) Yeah....this is a complex issue....but oh SO important. Keep the post coming....

Edited March 4, 2006 by SCdrumcorpsfan