MikeD Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 If there is a way for the division II & III circuit to brake off and do their own thing and be successful at it, I would be all for it. Have the directors of the II/III corps expressed such a desire in sufficient numbers to make such an endeavor remotely feasible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Why does the starting of a new league seem to you as a bad thing?....even if it is non-participants who are advocating a new league...so what....most non-participants have been past participants and know a thing or two about drum corps....whenever folks in this country are "disenchanted" with the status quo they change it...if those advocating a new league can pool the resources necessary to make such an endeavor a reality more power to them...I for one would love to see a variety of drum corps leagues just to enjoy more shows, and perhaps some new rules....one post read that there should be a league outin California...I would support this....you make too many generalizations in your post and I myself take offense to the term whiners....it only takes a few pages for someone to start the flame torch....and quoting from you...choice and variety also "makes the world go round" B) IMO... What is 'wrong' with non-participants starting a new circuit is that there are no corps. DCI 'made' it because it was a lot of the very top corps in the country that formed the circuit. I don't see that an "if we build it they will come" sort of thing has any chance of all at succeeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tone Quality Matters Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I will agree with the statement that Division 2 and 3 Corps deserve more time on the filed with the division I corps. I think DCI should seriously consider integrating at least 1 of each division 2 and 3, into each regular division 1 show. However, not all 2 & 3 corps can afford to travel all of the time. Jumping ship from DCI definently isn't the answer, and moving them to DCA would be the deathnail. No offense to DCA, but they don't have the resources or the right schedule to handle a change like that. I do agree that div. 2 & 3 corps deserve some regional contest time as well in big Div. 1 shows, and would defintely support that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 As I understand it, though, the II/III folks say this is by design. I don't know if I can't understand the impetus behind that decision....when Finals gets an NFL stadium and II/III gets a high school one. Well, all I need to know is that if the II/III folks are fine with it...that's all that matters to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 What about just leaving DCI and DCA alone, and letting them do their thing? Then, in addition to these corps, form the 'grass-roots' circuit I suggested, to ultimately feed the existing Jr. and Sr. circuits. Again, I think a huge national effort to form many corps, to give many more people the opportunity to participate, would cause a "trickle- down" effect. I'm not insinuating that these corps would start out at the Div. I calibre.But even small beginning corps could draw enough of a local fan base to survive, and grow some. Why not go back to fraternal organizations like VFW, Elks, AL, Moose, Kof C, CYO, PAL, etc. Those who remember the competitive circuit back in the mid to late 60's...use that system as seeds to grow NEW corps. If a corps works hard, has talent, raises funds, and continues to prosper, in time they might attain membership in DCI or DCA. At the least, their individual turnover could graduate up to "the big time." B) The problem is that it is no longer the 60's. Many of those organizations just do not have the membership and resources to find even a small drum corps. The corps of the 50's and 60's were fed by the kids of Vets from WW II and Koera. Once those kids aged out, and their parents got older, the numbers of members in the VFW and AL posts were just not there to support the drum corps activity...even in the 70's, let alone today. Look at the failures of LOCAL corps...with none to take their place. It really was not the failure of these small corps that was the problem...that was ALWAYS happening...it was the lack of new corps to take their place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I will agree with the statement that Division 2 and 3 Corps deserve more time on the filed with the division I corps. I think DCI should seriously consider integrating at least 1 of each division 2 and 3, into each regular division 1 show. However, not all 2 & 3 corps can afford to travel all of the time. Jumping ship from DCI definently isn't the answer, and moving them to DCA would be the deathnail. I've seen and enjoyed the Raiders and Surf at the NJ YEA! shows I've been attending the past few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Except for, to be quite frank, people who don't care to watch small corps. Would I spend all the money to go some weekend, and have to take another day off to get there thursday at 4? Unlikely. What do I do Friday?As a former D2 MM, I know what it's like. However, as a former D1 MM, I know who puts butts in seats. I think the point about D2/3 not making money is a year-long scenario. How big are the 2/3 shows during the year? 400-1000 people in attendance usually. If you have a big show at the end of the year, one time, you might do ok. However, long term, it's the D1's that sell the tickets that pay for a big stadium. look at some of the place D2/3 has their shows...how ya gonna get people there? did i say everyone would/should go? nope. but after seeing that crowd in 2002, and how vocal they were, you'd gain a lot of new fans if you allowed more people to experience it, as opposed to shuffling off 45 minutes away to a stadium not even in the same class. if people see D2/3 treated like redheaded step children, they will do it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdewine Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Mike D- I know this is not the sixties, but history does have a way of repeating itself. I'm not saying it would be easy to start a bunch of new corps. Most things that are worthwhile are not easy. I always come back to the "D's" I learned in jr. corps. Desire, Determination, Dedication, Discipline. These tools can work off the field and behind the scenes, as well as on the field. Before the idea is dismissed as "difficult" or "unlikely to succeed", why not ENCOURAGE a positive outcome. Shouldn't we attempt to overcome any potential difficulty, and "find a way"? I think that's how champions approach a problem. Just my own opinions here. No bashing intended. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Mike D- I know this is not the sixties, but history does have a way of repeating itself. I'm not saying it would be easy to start a bunch of new corps. Most things that are worthwhile are not easy. I always come back to the "D's" I learned in jr. corps. Desire, Determination, Dedication, Discipline. These tools can work off the field and behind the scenes, as well as on the field.Before the idea is dismissed as "difficult" or "unlikely to succeed", why not ENCOURAGE a positive outcome. Shouldn't we attempt to overcome any potential difficulty, and "find a way"? I think that's how champions approach a problem. IMO... The ubiquitous musical ensembles already exists...the school band program. It is much more far-reaching and available than drum corps ever could imagine. Even at it's height, there were something like 440 corps (competitive?) in existence. There are thousands of music programs. The competitive HS marching band has taken the place of the local corps circuits of my day...and is available to FAR more kids than ever competed in the day. Yes, you have to live in a town with a competitive band to compete...but just looking at the numbers far more kids actually DO compete now than ever. I'd like to see as many corps exist and thrive as possible, of course...at all division levels, but I see them primarily as enrichment programs for the kids from scholastic music programs who want to march, be it div I, II, or III. The admirable 4 D's you mentioned also fit nicely within that model. Just my own opinions here. No bashing intended. B) Oh, of course...that's what we ALL do, post our own ideas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footform Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 A good discussion. Is there a reason for top Div. 1 to split as (essentially) the Combine did - not likely. Do the lower division 1's and 2 and 3 get as much out of the current structure - not really. The real question is whether the fans would be there to do this at any level. They might be. There is a base of interested, involved people who can't get to and/or afford where DCI has gotten to right now. Enough of them to support a small budget circuit? I haven't explored that enough to say, but maybe. I will say that my parents attended pre- and DCI shows for many years. They had three children march - and two instruct and three granddaughters march - two now instructing. Without DCM, it is highly unlikely that they will get to any shows this year, partly because there are not any scheduled close enough for a 90 year old to get to, partly because of cost. I am glad the "other circuit" existed as long as it did, because they would most likely never have seen their grandchildren march without it. There is a cost to drum corps that happens outside our tightly knit community. There are friends and fans that will fall by the wayside or never know the activity we love exists. That is a shame no matter how we feel about the trappings of the activity. I lose, you lose, Hoppy and Roman lose, society loses. March in peace, my friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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