Jester - Settling Rumors with fact

[musicdesign]

Yes putting a corps on the field is expensive nowadays and yes especially in Division I money goes hand and hand with success. I never said that getting a new corps off the ground is an easy task and another reason why amateur corps directors should not being running these corps. Your making my point for me! This is a business from a management standpoint. You obviously have never been a part of a small organization and worked as part of an administrative team like I have. Money is important but not everything. Money is easy to come by too if your creative and use the resourses avail to corps nowadays.

Yes your right alot of kids do only want to march with top 5 corps and that is where the Division I corps are at fault and contribute to this problem as you obviously did not understand or read in my prior postings. But there are alot of kids out there to recruit who will march with smaller corps but they don't come to you , you have to go to them. Again be creative in recruiting which smaller corps are not. Your not going to get Division I talent most likely but you can get really good talent and develop their skills. You look at the sucessful Division 2/3 corps that is how they run their organizations and many of them like Blue Stars have made the move up to Division I and that is no accident, it is due to a plan and a great developmental program setup by the administrative and instructional team of these corps. Not that I am promoting corps to move up to Division I.

Again the evidence is against you if you look around at the successful Division 2/3 corps and the activity in general. This is not the 60's,70's and 80's anymore. Yes the kids are the most important factor in our activity and their musical, physical and personal growth but there is a business side to this activity that makes this wonderful experience these kids have all possible.

Are you kidding me? Money makes the world go 'round, especially in drum corps. I find it hard to believe that you don't know that with all that experience you claim you have in drum corps. It's difficult for small new corps to get off the ground for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is recruiting members who think that it's not worth it to march a corps that's not in the Top 5 with 135 members and a big bankroll to get them down the road. If corps thought like you, no one would start a new corps or try to keep small corps going.

[gdisney]

Obviously you don't know much about DCI and the evaluation process. The evaluation process is a joke. Any corps can pass it! Instructors and people involved in the DCI activity and its inner workings know that! So I suggest you get the facts straight before you comment!

I hate to tell you that yes this is a youth activity but it is also a business even at the Division 2/3 level. and DCI is a competitive circuit. If your not going to be competitive and on and off the field then you should not be competing and touring. Yes there should be a place for these corps to perform and DCI should create such a place but they should not be competing and touring and being represented at Championships!

Well, actually, I did go through the evaluation process personally in 2002 as I was starting RCR. I have also been to DCIP meetings where corps starting up did NOT pass the evaluation, and had to work on certain things and go through it again. So to say "any corps can pass it" simply is not true.

I'd wager that at this point in their evolution, Jester isn't going out there to be "competitive". They are going out there to perform, entertain, have fun, and to hopefully build their corps. Good for them.

Edited June 30, 2006 by gdisney

[Geoff]

When I marched in St. Johns in 1998 we had exactly 30 members including the drum major. We were VERY tight musically and visually. This was before the 30 member rule, but can you imagine if the rule was in place and we had only 29?? Heck, we could have cut the ticker from the snare line, gone down to 3 snares instead of 4, and been even tighter!!

Which one was the ticker?? ;)

[JF_the_Elder]

Obviously you don't know much about DCI and the evaluation process. The evaluation process is a joke. Any corps can pass it!

except for the Americanos

[DAvery]

I have a hard time thinking these kids do not deserve a chance to perform. Generally, I think the less rules the better. I'm not sure the 30 member rule is better for "the activity". Is DCI an exclusive or inclusive organization? What harm could happen if a group has less than 30 members?

[Dave]

Yes putting a corps on the field is expensive nowadays and yes especially in Division I money goes hand and hand with success. I never said that getting a new corps off the ground is an easy task and another reason why amateur corps directors should not being running these corps. Your making my point for me! This is a business from a management standpoint. You obviously have never been a part of a small organization and worked as part of an administrative team like I have. Money is important but not everything. Money is easy to come by too if your creative and use the resourses avail to corps nowadays.

Yes your right alot of kids do only want to march with top 5 corps and that is where the Division I corps are at fault and contribute to this problem as you obviously did not understand or read in my prior postings. But there are alot of kids out there to recruit who will march with smaller corps but they don't come to you , you have to go to them. Again be creative in recruiting which smaller corps are not. Your not going to get Division I talent most likely but you can get really good talent and develop their skills. You look at the sucessful Division 2/3 corps that is how they run their organizations and many of them like Blue Stars have made the move up to Division I and that is no accident, it is due to a plan and a great developmental program setup by the administrative and instructional team of these corps. Not that I am promoting corps to move up to Division I.

Again the evidence is against you if you look around at the successful Division 2/3 corps and the activity in general. This is not the 60's,70's and 80's anymore. Yes the kids are the most important factor in our activity and their musical, physical and personal growth but there is a business side to this activity that makes this wonderful experience these kids have all possible.

I am well aware of the challenges facing small corps; spare me the snobbery. You still don't seem to understand how important money is to everything that a corps needs to exist: equipment, staff, transportation, food, etc. When I marched Blue Stars we had plenty of problems recruiting for exactly the reason I mentioned: no matter how good we were in our own arena, 98% of the time when the kids saw we weren't open class finalists, they closed their ears and their minds to us. Yes, Blue Stars made the move because of a great plan; I was a part of the corps as it grew, I know quite well what it took. But not every Div. II/III corps has the resources to make that work, and saying "Well, you're small so you shouldn't be allowed to perform" is just ignorant and uneducated.

[the1gofer]

Thank your for all of your support!

Please don't misinterpreted any of my responses as argumentative or hostile. I only want to show the other side of the coin.

First of all! If a corps only has only 15 members or even 30 they should not be allowed to compete at the DCI level! This has nothing to do with numbers. It has to do with Managment most of the time these corps including Jester have made no real effort to recruit! You don't see any visible sign of Jester or alot of these others corps at BOA shows or even local marching band circuit shows! So you all have to stop making excuses for these corps. No reason why Jester along with many other Division 3 corps can not go out with more then 30 members.

I believe it's more than shortsighted to make the assumption we are not recruting becasue you don't see us recruiting.

I hate to tell you that yes this is a youth activity but it is also a business even at the Division 2/3 level. and DCI is a competitive circuit. If your not going to be competitive and on and off the field then you should not be competing and touring. Yes there should be a place for these corps to perform and DCI should create such a place but they should not be competing and touring and being represented at Championships!

I wonder if anyone else thinks that's a problem with the activity. You are absolutely correct it is a business, and many corps management isn't effective in those regards. However your focus seems to be on the business, and not the youth. The competition shouldn't be the product; it should be the byproduct, a result of the hard work and dedication the youth have burnt countless hours on. I for one have a burden for them, not for the competition. Jester is getting better every year. No one can argue that.

BTW groups like Jester arn't represented at Championships.

As far as competing with only 15 or 30. Yes these corps do have kids who have talent which makes it even more of a shame that these corps do not try to be competitive. These corps also have alot of what I will call bodies! kids just to fill holes. Nothing against any member. I think it is great that someone wants to march but they should be getting quality instructors and instruction and a quality experience which alot of these corps don't offer.

Who is the focus? It seems that it's become a rather egocentric activity if I base it soly on the above statement. Isn't it the members who are competing? Arn't they the ones who play, march, and conduct? Arn't they the ones who get the recognition and satisfaction of winning? Or are we? Is that why we teach? Is that why we tour? Is that why we recruit? So that our egos can be fed?

I can understand a corps which is going out for the first time only having 15-30 members as they are building but a corps that has been around for few years that shows no growth yes numbers wise and score wise is not an organization doing it's job. No excuse for that!

Has their really been no growth in Jester? Allow me to quote this site:

1. Mystikal 11.40 -2.00 6/28

2. Raiders 10.90 +10.90 6/25

3. Jester 10.30 +3.70 6/25

4. Hawthorne Gold 10.20 -3.60 6/28

5. Dutch Boy 10.10 +10.10 6/28

6. Fever 9.70 -2.90 6/20

7. Blue Devils C 9.40 +0.30 6/18

8. Citations 9.30 +9.30 6/25

9. Capital Sound 9.10 -1.00 6/28

10. Targets 7.80 +7.80 6/25

11. 7th Regiment 7.00 +7.00 6/25

This was rite after our last show? Did we beat anyone in any caption last season? I would call that growth.

[cheezedogg 23]

So that means all the corps that choose to stay D3 with about 45 members (as to fit on 1 bus because they can't afford 2 buses, the gas and driver for that 2nd bus) then these corps are hurting the activity because they aren't stiving for D1 status. Money is a huge part of everything. Yes grabing a stand and a chair and have someone sitting at band shows for several shows doesn't cost much, but it costs money to develop brochures and videos and stuff to entice a young kid that has only seen D1 on PBS or at a show and has never heard of your small little corps. Why would most kids come to the little corps with little money, when the Bluecoats have a stand at that same show and were on TV and have videos and DVDs and t-shirts to sell. Money rules all... but money isn't the end all. But you have to have it to make it.

[the1gofer]

Has anyone else noticed how contriversial Jester seems to be? What about our mere existance stirs up so many strong emotions?

[the1gofer]

So that means all the corps that choose to stay D3 with about 45 members (as to fit on 1 bus because they can't afford 2 buses, the gas and driver for that 2nd bus) then these corps are hurting the activity because they aren't stiving for D1 status. Money is a huge part of everything. Yes grabing a stand and a chair and have someone sitting at band shows for several shows doesn't cost much, but it costs money to develop brochures and videos and stuff to entice a young kid that has only seen D1 on PBS or at a show and has never heard of your small little corps. Why would most kids come to the little corps with little money, when the Bluecoats have a stand at that same show and were on TV and have videos and DVDs and t-shirts to sell. Money rules all... but money isn't the end all. But you have to have it to make it.

I believe small corps appeal to a different type of kid. From my experience we seem to attract those students who are seeking, more than anything else, a second family. I don't know what it's like in the bigger cops, so I can't say if it’s the same, but I have never seen students as bonded to one another, as those in Jester. As a result most of our recruiting is done word of mouth. That's not to say their is no merit in having someone spend all day sitting in the sun to talk to potential members. You have to step outside the D1 paradigm to get D3 to really work.