Showing up late to a show

[triplefunk]

I don't have a problem with it either. As a rule of etiquite that I've always preached and been taught, is that you don't interrupt a performance, if you are trying to find your seat, and a show starts, find the closest area where you are not in the viewing blocking area. I agree that a consumer has every right to do with it as they please.

[arno0940]

I think if the fans plan to arrive later so they don't have to sit through D2/3 - then that is rude. (but then again, they do pay for the show so really it is their loss)

If traffic or other factors have part ...well, that's life.

[jwscv87]

The only real etiquette issue I see is that you don't leave or enter the stands during a performance. Other than that, to each their own. I happen to spend a ton of time in the parking lot. It is what I love. The show in the lot is as terrific as the show in the stands. I get to see precious little drum corps, so when I'm at a show I'm going to spend my time doing what I love to do. Some venues are more lot friendly than others. At big venues I spend more time in the stands. At small venues I'm in the lot. In 2003 at Concord I had the pleasure of being mesmerized by SCVs drum line and then even moreso by Phantom in their horn arc. I missed a lot of drum corps, but I wouldn't have had it any other way.

[Bob984]

I agree that it is the ticket holder/consumer's right to show up whenever at a show (although never during....). However, I believe every corps in a show deserves a full audience, and I do think it shows "bad attitude" when someone only feels that the top 6 are worthy of their attention. I believe all of the corps deserve the same audience. I would like to see all seedings eliminated, and have corps draw straws for appearance order. Yes, it could be rough when a 14th place corps has to go on after number one. However, if we truly want to stimulate better competition, it is necessary. I would like to see preliminary scores withheld until after a final, and only the qualifying score would be announced at the end of preliminaries, and not even who received it. This year is a great example....corps from 6-11 have been especially close. The "country club" fan might find they just missed the champion when they show up an hour after showtime. This would almost guarantee a full audience for every competitor. I love quarterfinals, because I get to see everyone, and some corps that I wouldn't see otherwise. To say they are not worth seeing is bull. In fact, I have seen some great stuff at II/III, too. Yes, it's a long show, but not nearly as long as a 14 hour parking lot rehearsal in the hot sun.

GB

[SassyMama]

A momentum is created when watching the transition from DIII/II to DI at a show, it's almost as if a composer is writing a masterpiece of music and the big guys are the finale. While a finale might sound good on it's own, the build up explains and creates a base for it.

Let's face it, some people are just going to be rude. We could blame it on all sorts of things, but I think being rude is a matter of breeding, lack of knowledge, and well, people not caring about anything but themselves.

Each show announcer at the beginning of the show should go through a check list of audience do's and not do's.

[dbc03]

I agree that it is the ticket holder/consumer's right to show up whenever at a show (although never during....). However, I believe every corps in a show deserves a full audience, and I do think it shows "bad attitude" when someone only feels that the top 6 are worthy of their attention. I believe all of the corps deserve the same audience. I would like to see all seedings eliminated, and have corps draw straws for appearance order. Yes, it could be rough when a 14th place corps has to go on after number one. However, if we truly want to stimulate better competition, it is necessary. I would like to see preliminary scores withheld until after a final, and only the qualifying score would be announced at the end of preliminaries, and not even who received it. This year is a great example....corps from 6-11 have been especially close. The "country club" fan might find they just missed the champion when they show up an hour after showtime. This would almost guarantee a full audience for every competitor. I love quarterfinals, because I get to see everyone, and some corps that I wouldn't see otherwise. To say they are not worth seeing is bull. In fact, I have seen some great stuff at II/III, too. Yes, it's a long show, but not nearly as long as a 14 hour parking lot rehearsal in the hot sun.

GB

The problem with drawing straws is that when the Cavaliers go on at 5:00 and the Blue Devils go on at 10:30 how is a judge going to be able to compare the two?

When the corps perform in an order relatively similar to where they will finish at least the judge can say "Well... I think they were a little bit better than the last corps... the corps before them was better too, but these guys weren't quite as good as they were..."

Edit: Also, I'm not sure how your suggestion "stimulates better competition"

Edited July 26, 2006 by dbc03

[Bob984]

The problem with drawing straws is that when the Cavaliers go on at 5:00 and the Blue Devils go on at 10:30 how is a judge going to be able to compare the two?

When the corps perform in an order relatively similar to where they will finish at least the judge can say "Well... I think they were a little bit better than the last corps... the corps before them was better too, but these guys weren't quite as good as they were..."

Edit: Also, I'm not sure how your suggestion "stimulates better competition"

You mention Cavies/Devils....what if Phantom does the show of the night?? One of the problems in judging corps today is caption integrity. Each judge is supposed to be judging a caption, not overall corps, and each corps has strengths and weaknesses, even at the top. In 1977 the winning drumline in preliminaries was a corps that did not even make finals (14th...and I believe the drumline was 29-4 on the year as well....) Yes, that is extreme, and very rare, but emphasizes the importance iof caption integrity. The judge is to stick to the scoring criteria on his sheet. Even in today's sytem...yes, you may have two corps going on back to back who are close in your caption. However, the "5th place corps" may be the best in your caption, and the winning corps might be 4th in your caption. Order of appearance should be meaningless to the judge. The main problem I have is that in today's system, there is a large tendency to give/save only the big caption scores to the last 2 or 3 appearing; I don't think the system promotes any major movement....I am not saying it is warranted (I especially can't comment this year, yet, as I haven't seen a show yet...but will see 7 shows in the last 2 weeks), but if it were, it is still very unlikely to happen.

In terms of "stimulating better competition", it is simple. When I marched, the DCI finalists from the year before drew straws for prelim appearance order. Many of our finest performances were given when we went on after the defending champion or a corps or group of corps ranked higher. We did tend to perform better than when we were on around where we were ranked. Prelims also tended to be far more competitive. Kids are impressionable. We want them to be. Can you imagine what it would be like if we went into a championship and ALL of the top 9(or ideally, even deeper) were beating each other, placements were jumping like beans, and any of those 9 could actually win? This isn't going to happen overnight, but we need to have a system that stimulates toward that....instead, our current seeding system seems far more likely to promote slotting. The good news, at least this year, is that the corps in places 6-11 have been very competitive and there has been much jumping and it's been very close, and there does seem to be better caption integrity this year. I have also seen when a corps makes a major jump between two seasons (Crown comes to mind....I remember when they had a few years when they were barely making finals and then a sudden jump up in strength and quality) and it took 2/3 of the season for the judging community to fully acknowledge the change in level from a score/ranking standpoint. It should have happened in June (at least they did finally get it right...). GB

[dbc03]

You mention Cavies/Devils....what if Phantom does the show of the night?? One of the problems in judging corps today is caption integrity. Each judge is supposed to be judging a caption, not overall corps, and each corps has strengths and weaknesses, even at the top. In 1977 the winning drumline in preliminaries was a corps that did not even make finals (14th...and I believe the drumline was 29-4 on the year as well....) Yes, that is extreme, and very rare, but emphasizes the importance iof caption integrity. The judge is to stick to the scoring criteria on his sheet. Even in today's sytem...yes, you may have two corps going on back to back who are close in your caption. However, the "5th place corps" may be the best in your caption, and the winning corps might be 4th in your caption. Order of appearance should be meaningless to the judge. The main problem I have is that in today's system, there is a large tendency to give/save only the big caption scores to the last 2 or 3 appearing; I don't think the system promotes any major movement....I am not saying it is warranted (I especially can't comment this year, yet, as I haven't seen a show yet...but will see 7 shows in the last 2 weeks), but if it were, it is still very unlikely to happen.

In terms of "stimulating better competition", it is simple. When I marched, the DCI finalists from the year before drew straws for prelim appearance order. Many of our finest performances were given when we went on after the defending champion or a corps or group of corps ranked higher. We did tend to perform better than when we were on around where we were ranked. Prelims also tended to be far more competitive. Kids are impressionable. We want them to be. Can you imagine what it would be like if we went into a championship and ALL of the top 9(or ideally, even deeper) were beating each other, placements were jumping like beans, and any of those 9 could actually win? This isn't going to happen overnight, but we need to have a system that stimulates toward that....instead, our current seeding system seems far more likely to promote slotting. The good news, at least this year, is that the corps in places 6-11 have been very competitive and there has been much jumping and it's been very close, and there does seem to be better caption integrity this year. I have also seen when a corps makes a major jump between two seasons (Crown comes to mind....I remember when they had a few years when they were barely making finals and then a sudden jump up in strength and quality) and it took 2/3 of the season for the judging community to fully acknowledge the change in level from a score/ranking standpoint. It should have happened in June (at least they did finally get it right...). GB

The reason I used the example of the Cavies vs BD is because they are the top 2 corps currently. If Phantom performs better than one of them, it'll be a lot easier for the judges to realize that since they will be performing directly before Cavies and BD than it would be if they went on at 5 and BD went on at 10

The judging has nothing to do with not having 9 corps that could possibly win on any night. The corps do. The fact of the matter is, the top corps are better than the lower corps in just about every aspect these days. I don't see how changing the current judging system will possibly make any corps perform better. The performance should have nothing to do with the judges or the performance order

Edited July 27, 2006 by dbc03

[shawn craig]

I understand that it's the consumers choice to only want to see the top corps.

I guess watching the warm ups is ok, not personally my thing.

I just don't understand not wanting to watch all the shows. <**>

I love the activity so much I want to see everything. :)

I also marched in a class A corps, as div II/III was called at the time, and so I do think it's rude when people think those corps and thier members don't have anything worthwhile to offer or see. I've enjoyed some of those shows over the years MUCH more than some top well executed but, to me, boring shows. But I guess it's their loss, and a big one I believe it is. B)

I do have a problem with intermissions at shows with 6 or less corps. At Westminster there was a good size crowd. By the time intermission was over and the next corps ready to start, many people were just getting in line to buy stuff. There was almost no way to do anything and get back into the stands in time for the first corps after intermission.

[decompressed]

Not rude at all. I love Drum Corps, will be in Atlanta, but I just cannot sit through all the corps starting at 12 Noon on. Plus, I will go to the warmups to see old friends, etc.

As long as when you arrive, you wait until in between corps to find your seat...its all good!

Peace!