Cadets the future of drum corps?

[rgn22]

Before anyone dismisses me as a fly-by-night flamer, I want to start by saying I have never posted here but I am a casual reader of the forums. I'm 35 years old, and I was in Suncoast Sound in 87, 89 and was a charter member of Magic in 1990. I enjoy drum corps, and I think it is a great activity for young people. I know how forums can be cold to new posters, so I wanted to get that out of the way.

I had the privilege of attending the San Antonio show this past weekend, which was the first show I have seen in several years. I enjoyed watching the corps, especially Cavaliers and Phantom. Very creative, and very entertaining.

However, I was absolutely appauled at what Cadets are doing now. I have accepted all the changes over the years starting with 3 valves, then the b-flat horns, then the amplification and everything else. But now, with the featured vocalists, I believe this has fundamentally changed the activity from Drum and Bugle Corps to some kind of outdoor Off-Broadway mutilation of the activity. I was very excited when Cadets came out, as they have always been a favorite of mine, but when the young lady started singing over the microphone, over top of the hornline, and walking around on the field, I was not only shocked, but disgusted. I have nothing against the kids in the corps, including the singer (I know they are all working very hard), just the very idea of their new style.

Many of you may ask, "well, why not a singer?" Well, perhaps I will offer a sports analogy. When Interleague play started in baseball (meaning American League teams would play National League teams), some traditionalists were upset. I love baseball, but I didn't mind this change because it did not fundamentally change the game. Same rules, same game. But let's say that now all teams had the option of using a smaller, harder ball, whenever they wanted, depending on the situation? Well, that fundamentally changes the game and it is no longer baseball.

Cadets have always been pushing the envelope with their creativity and that is actually something that I like about them. But now it's almost as if they are out of ideas, so they want to change the rules of drum corps, for everyone, so drastically that it is no longer drum and bugle corps. Star of Indiana had the same idea, and rightfully, they moved on to other venues to perform the kind of music they want to perform. I applaud them for that, and for what they have become. If I want to go see Blast, I will buy a ticket and go see it. If Cadets want singers, microphones and that kind of style, they should persue the same route that Star did. Off-Broadway is always begging for these kind of shows.

Drum and Bugle Corps is certainly moving in a more artisitic direction, both musically and visually, and I am happy about that. However, Cadets (and Crossmen for that matter) are encoraching on the very soul of Drum and Bugle Corps. I sat in my seat, stunned and frankly disgusted at what Cadets were doing. The only word that came to mind at the time was "abomination."

I'd be interested in other opinions, both pro and con. Please be mature and offer your comments without insulting the opinions of others.

[Hrothgar15]

Before anyone dismisses me as a fly-by-night flamer, I want to start by saying I have never posted here but I am a casual reader of the forums. I'm 35 years old, and I was in Suncoast Sound in 87, 89 and was a charter member of Magic in 1990. I enjoy drum corps, and I think it is a great activity for young people. I know how forums can be cold to new posters, so I wanted to get that out of the way.

I had the privilege of attending the San Antonio show this past weekend, which was the first show I have seen in several years. I enjoyed watching the corps, especially Cavaliers and Phantom. Very creative, and very entertaining.

However, I was absolutely appauled at what Cadets are doing now. I have accepted all the changes over the years starting with 3 valves, then the b-flat horns, then the amplification and everything else. But now, with the featured vocalists, I believe this has fundamentally changed the activity from Drum and Bugle Corps to some kind of outdoor Off-Broadway mutilation of the activity. I was very excited when Cadets came out, as they have always been a favorite of mine, but when the young lady started singing over the microphone, over top of the hornline, and walking around on the field, I was not only shocked, but disgusted. I have nothing against the kids in the corps, including the singer (I know they are all working very hard), just the very idea of their new style.

Many of you may ask, "well, why not a singer?" Well, perhaps I will offer a sports analogy. When Interleague play started in baseball (meaning American League teams would play National League teams), some traditionalists were upset. I love baseball, but I didn't mind this change because it did not fundamentally change the game. Same rules, same game. But let's say that now all teams had the option of using a smaller, harder ball, whenever they wanted, depending on the situation? Well, that fundamentally changes the game and it is no longer baseball.

Cadets have always been pushing the envelope with their creativity and that is actually something that I like about them. But now it's almost as if they are out of ideas, so they want to change the rules of drum corps, for everyone, so drastically that it is no longer drum and bugle corps. Star of Indiana had the same idea, and rightfully, they moved on to other venues to perform the kind of music they want to perform. I applaud them for that, and for what they have become. If I want to go see Blast, I will buy a ticket and go see it. If Cadets want singers, microphones and that kind of style, they should persue the same route that Star did. Off-Broadway is always begging for these kind of shows.

Drum and Bugle Corps is certainly moving in a more artisitic direction, both musically and visually, and I am happy about that. However, Cadets (and Crossmen for that matter) are encoraching on the very soul of Drum and Bugle Corps. I sat in my seat, stunned and frankly disgusted at what Cadets were doing. The only word that came to mind at the time was "abomination."

I'd be interested in other opinions, both pro and con. Please be mature and offer your comments without insulting the opinions of others.

Great first post! I totally agree with everything you said. It seems you and I have very many of the same feelings on this issue. I think my avatar somes up quite nicely what is happening in this situation.

Edited July 26, 2006 by Hrothgar15

[JMS0527]

1) I agree totally

2) It is very unlikely that the wish in your final sentence will be fulfilled...I'm not guaranteeing this, but don't be surprised

[ApocalypseTissue]

Well you see you caught yourself in a loop.

You can't specifically aim at the Cadets. They've probably voiced it more than any other corps so most people nag on them for it.

SCV did amplification

Crown did singing

Blue Devils did narration

Bluecoats and Boston also used human voice

Might I also add that every director approved the soundboard proposal for 2006.

You cannot just blame the cadets, when the top 12 directors of last year are aiding to this "future". They're silent supporters by their actions as well.

I'm not a fan of amplification or what is amped either, but maybe it's better if you realize that nothing their doing is new, particularily the human voice in shows...it's just louder with electronic aid.

Edited July 26, 2006 by ApocalypseTissue

[cire]

Many of you may ask, "well, why not a singer?" Well, perhaps I will offer a sports analogy. When Interleague play started in baseball (meaning American League teams would play National League teams), some traditionalists were upset. I love baseball, but I didn't mind this change because it did not fundamentally change the game. Same rules, same game. But let's say that now all teams had the option of using a smaller, harder ball, whenever they wanted, depending on the situation? Well, that fundamentally changes the game and it is no longer baseball.

interesting analogy.. i guess you can only change drum corps so much, while keeping it on the field. aka.. linear forms to full on design.. but what next.. crazier drill.. yes.. cavies do a great job at pushing the envelope on that. what else is there to push? we dont have capes and cant fly (as discussed in another thread) so 3d drill is out of the question..

i think the same can be said about other aspects.. marching pit to stationary.. valve/rotor to 2 valve, to 3 valve.. they all push the envelope as far as the possibilities.. opens new doors. but where does one say, ok.. lets work with what we have, and not push that door so far that it literally ends up on the field. (yes, that was a pun)

where does innovation start, and drum corps end?

[rgn22]

You cannot just blame the cadets, when the top 12 directors of last year are aiding to this "future". They're silent supporters by their actions.

Good point, and you are correct. I suppose I should have distributed my critique at DCI in general. All of the support for this makes it even more troubling.

[KRtrumpet182]

This is my first post as well. The Cadets have been my favorite corps ever since I first learned about drum corps about 5 years ago. I loved their show last year, especially the musical selections. I was very excited to hear about this year's show, albeit surprised at all of the negativity that seemed to surround it even early on. I have followed their progress through their website (HopBlog, videos, etc), but have yet to see their show. Even after reading all of the criticisms regarding the voice-overs and vocalist, I am still VERY excited to see the show live for the first time next week (at the Bensalem, PA show).

My thoughts on the future of the Cadets? Well, after having such great success last year with a new show concept, I believe they wanted to take it a step further this year. They might have overstepped their boundaries a bit, but are probably not regretting their decision that much. They are still a wonderful corps, can play and march at top performance level, and are striving for excellence and perfection with every performance. What more can you ask for? Not every show is going to suit everyone's tastes, especially when it is so drastically different from traditional drum corps. Drum corps is an ever-evolving activity. I believe that in the years to come, the Cadets will contine with their new approach to the activity, but probably in a less-dramatic fashion than this year's show. I think the use of voice and amplification is still seeking to find a correct level of balance in DCI. The first few years are bound to be rough (as is evident with the Blue Devils show form last year). But once the correct balance is found and it is implemented in the correct/most beneficial manner, fans will be more likely to accept these changes. Until then, there are going to be growing pains.

I applaud the Cadets for giving it their all and sticking with their show, even through the criticisms. And, they are making changes that they feel will help the audience/adjudicators understand their objectives. So give them a chance and enjoy it for what it is. I personally can't wait to see it next Wednesday!

[ApocalypseTissue]

Most people on this forum have become blind and all they say is

Hopkins Hopkins Hopkins Hopkins when they completely ignore that one person in DCI can't make changes alone.

No way in #### is it just this one person. Like I've said to everyone who's suprised by what's on the field ... other corps have already paved the way for "Through the Looking Glass". Therefore innovation's done, simple as that, The Cadets are not doing anything new.

-Just to throw it up in the air

2004, amps were allowed, yet no one made the connection that people don't talk about amps when Jethro Tull happened.

Edited July 26, 2006 by ApocalypseTissue

[mpsanchez]

-Just to throw it up in the air

2004, amps were allowed, yet no one made the connection that people don't talk about amps when Jethro Tull happened.

I laughed so hard I spit pop all over my monitor. Good point! :P

[WOOHOO]

Before anyone dismisses me as a fly-by-night flamer, I want to start by saying I have never posted here but I am a casual reader of the forums. I'm 35 years old, and I was in Suncoast Sound in 87, 89 and was a charter member of Magic in 1990. I enjoy drum corps, and I think it is a great activity for young people. I know how forums can be cold to new posters, so I wanted to get that out of the way.

I had the privilege of attending the San Antonio show this past weekend, which was the first show I have seen in several years. I enjoyed watching the corps, especially Cavaliers and Phantom. Very creative, and very entertaining.

However, I was absolutely appauled at what Cadets are doing now. I have accepted all the changes over the years starting with 3 valves, then the b-flat horns, then the amplification and everything else. But now, with the featured vocalists, I believe this has fundamentally changed the activity from Drum and Bugle Corps to some kind of outdoor Off-Broadway mutilation of the activity. I was very excited when Cadets came out, as they have always been a favorite of mine, but when the young lady started singing over the microphone, over top of the hornline, and walking around on the field, I was not only shocked, but disgusted. I have nothing against the kids in the corps, including the singer (I know they are all working very hard), just the very idea of their new style.

Many of you may ask, "well, why not a singer?" Well, perhaps I will offer a sports analogy. When Interleague play started in baseball (meaning American League teams would play National League teams), some traditionalists were upset. I love baseball, but I didn't mind this change because it did not fundamentally change the game. Same rules, same game. But let's say that now all teams had the option of using a smaller, harder ball, whenever they wanted, depending on the situation? Well, that fundamentally changes the game and it is no longer baseball.

Cadets have always been pushing the envelope with their creativity and that is actually something that I like about them. But now it's almost as if they are out of ideas, so they want to change the rules of drum corps, for everyone, so drastically that it is no longer drum and bugle corps. Star of Indiana had the same idea, and rightfully, they moved on to other venues to perform the kind of music they want to perform. I applaud them for that, and for what they have become. If I want to go see Blast, I will buy a ticket and go see it. If Cadets want singers, microphones and that kind of style, they should persue the same route that Star did. Off-Broadway is always begging for these kind of shows.

Drum and Bugle Corps is certainly moving in a more artisitic direction, both musically and visually, and I am happy about that. However, Cadets (and Crossmen for that matter) are encoraching on the very soul of Drum and Bugle Corps. I sat in my seat, stunned and frankly disgusted at what Cadets were doing. The only word that came to mind at the time was "abomination."

I'd be interested in other opinions, both pro and con. Please be mature and offer your comments without insulting the opinions of others.

Not to ruin your sports analogy, but they have changed the density of the major league baseball in the last 15 years. And as far as the "soul" of drum corps, don't blame The Cadets. What they are doing is perfectly legal under the current rulas of DCI. Someone was going to do something like this sooner or later. Just for clarification, The Cadets in themselves do not determine what drum corps does or doesn't do; that's the board of directors. While The Cadets may have done a little too much in this year's show, I'm gonna guess that DCI will be more likely to head in this direction that any other.

I'm also gonna say it is highly unlikely that The Cadets will put on another show like this next year because of all the negative feedback this show is getting. Just a little too ahead of it's time. Give it 5-10 years.