do you feel that being in the top 12 today...

[cire]

do you feel that being in the top 12 today... is not as glamourous/exciting/special/etc as it was in say.. the mid-late 70s?

just curious about this because of the lack of corps that are competing compared to 30 years ago.. someone mentioned there was about 50 div 1 corps back then.. now would being in the top 12 out of 50 be more impressive back than, or being in the top 12 out of 25 corps today?

and just to clarify.. im not saying anything negative about the corps who do or do not make the top 12...

[bawker]

I think there's a vailidity to both sides of the issue:

...nowadays the "top 12" is more than half the competing Divison I drum corps. It's not the same as years ago when it was a big deal to even be "Top 21", and make DCI status. Having more competition makes it a bigger deal...when you beat 30-40 units to get in, rather than 10-11 ( and most of the lower units are predestined to a certain place in the DCI schema anyway...and no, I'm not talking about slotting...but how many people pick Pioneer to make semis here?)

The flip side of that is that units now are much more technically adept than their previous counterparts. 13th place in 2006 would have possibly been 8th in 1996, and so on. The quality of instruction is great, and for the most part the units are more stable financially than years previous.

I thought that DCI was onto something with the "regional Div. I" idea a few years ago, as a way to ease corps into competing with the big guns, and to still let them run a more relaxed schedule...which seems to reason would grow Division I in a "slow but steady" way. Apparently, it hasn't really caught on.

There aren't a lot of II/III units out there, and those that are sometimes not always with us each year. Considering that's where the growth to Division I comes from ...all the units from the lower ranks that could conceivably move up due to being stable and consistent organizations total only a few: East Coast Jazz, Spartans, Arizona Academy, and maybe two or three more in a few years. Getting back to 30 Division I corps would be great news...but I think that may be a few more years in the offing. :)

[90'sMelloguy]

Yeah I think it depends on how you look at it.

Sure there were a lot more corps back then, so there were alot more corps that you had to beat to get into finals. But I think that the quality was low for the overwhelming majority of the corps out there. Ten or twenty years ago many of the corps that made finals were not very good, but today everyone that makes finals is really great (and even a few corps that dont make finals are pretty slammin too).

I remember the first time that I had a chance to watch some of the corps at the bottom of the top 12 (in the 90's) and I thought to myself: " What's the big deal about making finals? There are a whole lot of high school bands that play and march better than this and they dont have a whole summer to work on a show....." Now when I see 12th place corps I dont feel the same way

[84skyrydr]

I think that making top 12 was harder years ago due to the spread of top talent throughout the numerous corps. Most top corps got their members through their own feeder corps so there was some really talented people in some not so talented corps. Now days most of the top talent go to the top corps. Look at the rosters and see how many kids come from their local towns. Not very many corps today though, leads to some extremely talented corps. The top 6-9 corps now days would be top 2 in many if not all of the years with more than 25 corps.

[Row 25]

I think the top 12 corps are better now. So one would have to put together a better corps today to make top 12. So in that sense it is more prestigious.

[Morgoth Bauglir]

It's plenty glamorous to me. Especially never having made finals in 3 years with 3 different div I corps. I give just about anything to have another shot at Saturday night.

[xmenjeffb]

Making Finals is making Finals now matter when you did it or how you did it . It was all within the summer of competition. It is always better to be in than out .

[victorcoly]

I think the top 12 corps are better now. So one would have to put together a better corps today to make top 12. So in that sense it is more prestigious.

This statement has only partial merit. Yes, today's corps obviously do more high velocity drills, etc and even more sophisticated music for the most part. But to say that you have to put together a "better corps" to make the top 12 is somewhat off base.

Let's face it, in the late 70's, and even up until the mid to late 80's, the equipment was heavier (a bass drum weighed about 35 to 60 pounds depending on size, snare carriers didn't really become the norm until 1982/83/84), and you were stuck with bugles in the key of G. Brass players used to playing B-flat horns had to re-learn valve combos, etc.

In all actuality, you would have had to put together a "better corps" back then to make the top 12. In 1980, 64 Open Class (now called Division I) corps competed in DCI prelims (now known as quarter and semi finals) over a three day period. Out of these 64 corps, about 6 were "shoe ins" to make top 12, and about 25 other corps duked it out for spots 6 to 12, and the rest gave it their best.

For those younger then 40, it used to be somewhat prestigious to make the "Top 25" at DCI, and even more special to make the "Top 20." Up until 1988, if you made the "Top 20" your corps got on the "albums."

In the earlier years, there were also a lot more rivalries during the season, and at DCI finals. There were the obvious -- BD/SCV; Madison/Cavies; Phantom/Cavies. But there were also 27th/Bridgemen/Garfield; Blue Stars/Schaumburg Guardsmen; North Star/27th; North Star/Guardsmen; Long Island Kingsmen/Royal Brigade; Bluecoats/Squires; Blucoats/Cleveland Caballeros; Bluecoats/Glassmen; Glassmen/Saginaires. I could go on and on........

I think today's corps are MUCH better musically and visually, but that is due to a lot of factors. B-flat horns allowing more brass players to "transition" into a corps, creation of the "pit" allowing grounding of xylos, marimbas and concert percussion equipment to allow more musical percussion. Better technology all around in battery percussion equipment to allow the drum line to be integrated right into the drill package rather then playing "elevator action" up and down the 50 yard line.

[kevingamin]

Brass players used to playing B-flat horns had to re-learn valve combos, etc.

This was true up until 3-valve bugles were allowed as of 1990, and even the 2-valve horns had nearly similar fingerings. Any note on or below the staff which required a 3rd valve was unavailable on a 2-valve horn so you didn't have to worry about them. Above the staff, the partials are close enough that alternate fingerings are possible, such as 1st valve for an Ab above the staff as opposed to 2nd and 3rd valve.

Once corps started switching to 2-valve bugles, fingering issues weren't much of an issue unless you were a trombone or woodwind player. Of course, for these players, they're still an issue.

[nummy1]

I think the past couple of years, being in the top twelve really means something... DCI is getting much more competitive... the shows are getting much better... being in a corps that didn't make finals, it sucks... so top twelve is still what its cracked up to be...